Author Topic: Increasing autostart charging amps  (Read 1954 times)

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muskeg

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Increasing autostart charging amps
« on: March 19, 2009, 04:47:06 AM »


 I finally got around to trying   a 1980s Dodge 100amp alternator on my automatic start  charging system.

  While automotive units are not efficent they are easy to get..


 The original dodge 50 amp 12 volt alternator was working quite good at 50 amps at 24 volts but I needed more amps to reduce runtime on the engine.


My notes....


To control field power:

  The field coil still needs 7 volts for charging and approx 5 amps.

 I use a welding rehostat for fine tuning and hook a chevy ballast resistor in  series for to reduce 24 volts down. Easy but gets really hot.

 Also tried was a 60 watt 24 volt tractor light-- instead of the resistor- not enough amps.  This may work if two lights are hooked in parallel.

  Next experiment I may try a 24 to 12 volt converter.

 ( has anybody tried this?)

 The alternator works great up to 80 amps at 24 volts after that it gets really hot.

 Heat gun measured the diodes at 150C which drops down to 130C if amperage is reduced to 75 amps.

 The alternator needs about 8000rpm to keep cool.

  (maybe some more ventilation holes need to be drilled)


What I have noticed besides 1 hour less runtime to reach 28 volts ( the engine off point) is that my batteries are holding their voltage up for a longer period of time.

I am guessing at better electrolyte mixing...


   Less generator runtime = some success..

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 04:47:06 AM by (unknown) »

bob g

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 02:35:01 AM »
how big of an engine are you using to drive this alternator?


just curious


bob g

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 02:35:01 AM by bob g »
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
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muskeg

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 08:04:02 AM »


 I am using a Jiang dong 15 hp on propane. 5.5 in pulley.

 The engine hardly notices the load.

 A larger pulley will be tried to lower engine rpms.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 08:04:02 AM by muskeg »

Opera House

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 08:04:10 AM »
You are loosing 100W just powering the field.  Build a switching regulator or use something like this on ebay  New-Car-Power-Supply-Convert-Devicer-DC-24V-to-12.  Hey, not my spelling!  Or use many of the PWM motor speed control kits.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 08:04:10 AM by Opera House »

sk windpirate

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 09:18:39 AM »
Hi Muskeg


I have some old Mopar 100 amp alternators. "They are heavy duty",And great, but designed to be used for 12 volt systems. 1200 watts. your pushing 1900+ watts.

the result is they will heat. They may be good, but have there limits.  


Some of the big trucks use 24 volt 200 amp charge systems. They are bigger and heaver than the old 100 amp. They may need less amps to energize the fields too.


Have you checked then out?


 

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 09:18:39 AM by sk windpirate »

muskeg

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 09:58:49 AM »


 The field does waste a lot of power ...


 Using a 24 volt Dc motor controller sounds like a good idea- has anybody tried one?


Another note on seprate field controls...

  Use a seperate/independent connection to the battery. If the main charging breaker or fuse pops you will get over 80 volts Dc ARC on the rheostat..  


  I got the  dodge units for free - the windings should be heavy enough for a higher voltage it seems it could use more air as the smaller 50 amp unit does not get as hot when I doubled its voltage.


 I have 2 leece neville 24 volt 60 amp units from a ilitis jeep.

 The regulators are pooched unfortunately...


Up here, rebuilt 24 volt 100 amp units are $600...

 Found some 75 amp units for $500...


  Have to keep watching Ebay....


 

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 09:58:49 AM by muskeg »

scottsAI

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 10:43:52 AM »
Muskeg,


Several things.


Replace the diodes with higher voltage rated diodes. Do it externally on a good heat sink.

Want to keep diodes cooler, 150C is their Max rating, do not want to operate there long term, will fail given enough time. Diode case temperatures while mounted to a heat sink are lower than internal temperatures, 150C case temperature the junction temperature is much higher, your way over the temperature rating of the diodes. I worry about electronics above 100C long term. Removing diodes will help rest of alternator run cooler... can't hurt. Careful shopping not too expensive.


Normal battery at 14v the AC peak voltage is 14 x 1.4 = 19.6v your at 40v.

The alternators output will be higher, hot diodes and wiring will push the internal voltage above 45v as seen by the diodes. The voltage rating of the diodes varies from 40v on up. Many alternators are 55v.

Some alternators use load dump zerner diodes, which start clamping the output above 40v peak voltage. I do not know the alternator your using.


100 amp alternator is the max rating, not intended to do this for hours. Most vehicles battery systems are charged within 15 minutes... Your over taxing your alternator. Suggest dropping down to 60 amps or less.


"While automotive units are not efficient they are easy to get.."

Since easy to get, use several, Your engine is rated at 15 hp, like you said it hardly notices it.

With two at 60 amps each your engine should notice that. Use separate diode banks for each alternator.

The field and resistors may be wasting power, the over all system is so inefficient, not going to give you any pay back to fix it. Energy is energy, 100w of 2,000 is 5%.


The more you can load the 15hp engine the more efficient things will be. Looking at ICE their efficiency typically peaks at 80% of rated load. 4 alternators at 60 amps each will give it a good load, specifics about your battery are missing, can it take 240 amps!? By wiring the fields in series parallel can improve the efficiency of powering the fields. (No switching regulators). 3 alternators looks about right in series (based on 7v from your notes). Notice I only suggested 4 alt. Automotive alternators are 54% efficient, the four will be fully loading your engine. Most small ICE are rated on thermal power, since 25% efficient, can rate it 4x larger than the HP output rating I call that a fantasy rating, like my lawn moor, rated at 6.5hp, the bigger engines seem to give a more realistic rating based on actual output HP.


Battery charging

Complex subject, will hit on couple points. High current charging the battery voltage will start coming up above 80% state of charge (SOC). Current must be reduced to let battery reach a fully charged state. Not necessary to fully charge a battery every charge or even weekly.


Less generator runtime = some success..

Less propane!


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 10:43:52 AM by scottsAI »

muskeg

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 12:18:35 PM »


  Thanks Scott....


  I like the idea of wiring the field coils in series...

   2 alternators are easy to set up.

My battery bank is 24 with 8 L16 and and 24  Varta 2 volts cells , 100 amps is possible.

 More than 2 units with regular vee belts would be a nightmare to set up.


 Any ideas on how set up 2 or more alternators using a serpentine belt?


 In case anybody was wondering why I set things up like this...it is in the same shed as my batteries and provideds heat in there while charging...

Overall fairly compact and easy to repair.

 Got to love -30c Alberta winters....


 

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 12:18:35 PM by muskeg »

scottsAI

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 02:56:00 PM »
Muskeg,


Glad you found something of use, hoped you could.


If the engine is run often consider getting a smaller one and hook it up for co-generation.

Charge the batteries while heating your home! Excess power, run a heat pump if warm enough (or geothermal) or run heating elements. System efficiency can exceed 90% if done right. (need much better alternator). Found on eBay a water cooled 4 Hp Diesel engine, good candidate for co-generation. Compression to low to be very efficient.


If I lived off grid, co-generation would be on my top 10 list of things to get done along with geothermal. Super insulation of the building for -30c (-22F) probably on TOP of the list!

Takes money to save money always a balancing game against what you have today against what you will have tomorrow. Notice I left off solar, hear in Alberta not much sun during the winter!


Serpentine belt - The most you can pull off a belt is 7 Hp, enough for two to three alternators. Use an idler between the two alternators to get enough belt wrapping. Look at how its done on a vehicle. Three gen would be best, to get good belt wrapping, but the HP might exceed belts capabilities.


Are you off grid? If yes, then you must look into co-generation! Why waste engine heat while charging batteries, you must be getting hours of run time a day! Don't pay for the heat twice, once for engine then again for home!


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 02:56:00 PM by scottsAI »

muskeg

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 05:11:34 PM »


 Scott...


Co gen has been on  my list for awhile...

  A Marathon Minotaur would be great or a Freewatt..

 Maybe when My Lady decides on what kind of house she wants,,,


A changfa or redstone are looking good..


 Will have to start a new thread in the heat sectio of this board..


 

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 05:11:34 PM by muskeg »

scottsAI

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Re: Increasing autostart charging amps
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2009, 06:16:20 PM »
Muskeg,


Check out : PAPERCRETE

http://www.livinginpaper.org/


Building R45 walls, affordable price.


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 06:16:20 PM by scottsAI »