first wind mill

[wingman1776]

I am starting my first wind mill. I have a fanuc ac servo motor 20f/2000.

This motor should start charging about 180 to 200 rpm. I was thinking about building it as a eight foot mill. I am hopeing for sugestions as to what size mill to make from guys with more experence then me. Mabey save me few mistakes.

The motor has a brake and needs to be removed. I though I would be able to remove it from the encoder end. The encoder came off easy. it seems to be mounted to a plate that looks like it should come out but seems to be stuck. the only other way into the motor is from the frount. I have never taken apart motor like this before. I have read on the board that you can mess up the motor taking it apart to far and I do not want to do that. I wanted to post a shot of the end of the motor as far as I have it apart but it does not show on the list to insert but I uploaded it to my files. I have seen where other have taken the brake out of a servor motor and was hoping I could get a bit of advise on how to get mine out.

I will be adding more pics and things as stuff goes on. A bit of help on up loading and finding the pic so I can post them would be great. I have figured out resizing them. I uploaded first one found it fine but when I upload another I can not find it in the insert image box on right hand of screen ?

[12AX7]

Hello!

I have NOT seen the insides of a Fanuc servo motor.  

However I have had a Kollmorgan servo motor apart and "defeated" it's brake.

If I can get the image inserted here..  You will see the rotor from the Kollmorgan.  On the left side of the rotor is the brake (the drive shaft side).  It was bolted with allen screws from the outside of the end bell.   When I recovered this motor from the scrap heap someone else had already taken it apart So I'm unsure if there was a "proper order" to take it apart.   I believe that the brake assembly is "pressed" on and I do not have the equipment to remove it.  So all I did was cover the rotor with a towel and ground down the surface of the brake (what is bolted to the inside of the end bell) The wires for the brake had already been cut, so I reassembled the motor and plugged the holes in the end bell with silicone sealant.  The brake assembly in TOTAL now spins with the rotor.

 

[zap]

Wingman,

I think this is the picture you were looking for?

I think there's a bit of a bug in the software on here now when it comes to uploading and posting pictures.

If you open up "Your Photo Uploads" in another browser window or another tab, if your browser has that feature, the page should look something like this.

The page you see will be different because you don't have as many photos uploaded as I do.  When I looked at your files all that was listed was

".."

"."

and, "motor tag.jpg"

Once you're on this page you can click on "motor tag.jpg" and the picture you loaded will come up.  If you click on the "." it will bring you to another file tree and that should look something like this.

Don't try to find your file under the ".." since I believe this will take you to every photo upload on www.fieldlines.com from every user.

As you can see, your files are there but unfortunately you can't add a picture from that tree using the "Insert image" button.

What you can do is open whatever photo you want to insert, copy it's web address(Which should be something like "hxxp//www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/xxxxx/nothingatall.jpg")then paste that into your text with the "img tag".

If that's not clear enough let me know and I'll try and explain it better/further.

[wingman1776]

Thanks Zap that is the pic I was looking for and the way you explained the adding the photo was very clear to me and a lot of help. thanks agin

[zap]

Cool... glad it helped.

[wingman1776]

Thanks for the reply and the pic. I see you got the shaft all the way out of the motor and I quess it worked ok when you got it back together ? This is what I was worried about before I tore into the other end of the motor. I had read that taking it all the way out could cause it to lose magnetism, loss timing and not work. By working I thought they ment it running right as steper motor. Loseing timing I was not worried about cause I plan on makeing power with it but do not want to mess it up so that it can not be used as generator.

[12AX7]

Hello!

IF...  IF you don't plan on using the motors encoder, I'd not worry about taking the motor apart.  

As I stated my motor was already apart, and when I found it it's encoder was already damaged.  after putting it back together it works fine as an alternator.  If you are interested there are a few other pics of the servo motor in my files, feel free to look!

Mark

ax7

[ghurd]

Removing the rotor from a servo motor can ruin it as a PMA.

Hence the warning stickers.

I am not the only one who ruined a servo.

G-

[12AX7]

Hello

I've taken a number of servo motors apart, Allen Bradly..Kollmorgan.. Science Pacific and a few others.    None of them failed to generate power when reassembled.  I don't know why you would have experienced a failure to generate power?   I know that the rotor for the Kollmorgan was removed and stored out side of the stator for close to a year before I reassembled it.  I haven't tried to spin it with a power driven source, but I have hooked up a small load to it (a lamp) and spun it by hand.  It behaves just as it should, it spins easy with out a load, and as I increase the load (decrease resistance) it gets harder to spin.  With it's output leads shorted it's almost impossible to turn.

Ghurd,  What has been the nature of the failures you have had?

I don't understand what would be different from a servo motor and any motor conversion that others have made.  

When I recovered the Kollmorgan from the trash barrel there was slight damage to it (one of the many magnets was cracked and had a small piece missing)

as you can see the fiber tape that covered the magnets had been removed.

I stopped by a local motor repair shop and inquired about replacement for the rotor covering that had been removed.  They sold me a fiber tape to wrap it with, the manager of the motor company told me that after I wrap the tape around the rotor to bake it in the oven to shrink the tape.  When I questioned the idea of heating of the magnets, he shrugged his shoulders and said that was the procedure they followed.

I DID NOT try this myself.

I would not suggest to anyone to remove this covering from their motors.

Again, I KNOW that the encoder on the servo motor is "toast" and will NEVER work again.

Putting the rotor back into the stator was tricky, and I understand those who have made motor conversions have commented the same.

If a converted motor (one where magnets were glued to the rotor) was assembled and then disassembled would it be expected that it would be ruined?  and if so how?

There's more to yack about but grandkids are telling me that I had better cut this short for now!  

Mark

ax7

[ghurd]

I think, maybe, the magnets get weak.  They will still generate, but not like before.

I have one (100V?) that won't make 3Voc.

A young fellow who posts on here opened one for a very short time, and his output dropped like 30% IIRC.  He had solid test numbers.

Wonder where he's been?

I have a couple with brakes.  Afraid to open them to get the brake out!

Plus distracted with other projects.

G-

[wingman1776]

I have been worried about the magnets getting weak. The motor I have has no warning stickers on it about not takeing it apart. I was reading about getting servo motors repaired on the net and from what I have been reading a good repair place has a machine to bring the magnets back to factory specs so the motor has the same power it did when new.

I have spent long time looking for a pdf file, service manual or some thing on net that has a brake down pic of the motor. I can not find any thing seems weird to me cause most stuff is easy to get. Quess the motors are secret or some thing could be I am not the best with google.

[12AX7]

Hello..

I guess I don't understand, why the magnets that are used in a servo motor would behave differently than other magnets used else where.  I understand that magnets that are to be stored for a period of time should be stored with a "keeper".

I think that the iron/steel plate/rotor in a servo motor/alternator act as a "keeper" during the life of the unit.  

In the radial alternators that are currently being used for windmills there is no metal on the stator side (coils cast with an epoxy of sorts) so unlike a servo motor or motor conversion, there is no metal near the magnet surface to act like a keeper (yes I understand that's not the purpose of the laminates in a motors stator).

Assuming one were to remove a rotor from a servo motor for only as long as it takes to disable/remove a brake and then reinstall the rotor, why or what would cause the magnets to loose their force?

As I already said, the rotor from my Kollmorgan had been outside of the stator for close/over a year and I can safely say that the "thing was a magnetic monster" when I finally got around to reassembling it.

No, I can't say for a fact that the magnets were just as strong as the time before the rotor was removed.  But at the same time, I can't really imagine that they could have been much stronger than when I reassembled it.

Ghurd, you said your motor was rated at 100v?  All the servos that I have played with are industrial types,  the smallest had a drive shaft of about 1/4 inch.  and I think were rated at .5kvas (I still have a few of those but are currently in a shed buried by a few inches of snow) I will try to dig one out and post a few pics of it (if there is any interest).   I have several servo motors of various sizes, (servos aren't rated by horse power)  and like the audio industry there doesn't seem to be a "Standard" that they are rated at,  most are in Newton/meters/.  

All the servos I've played with are much larger than what one would find in a printer.

They are All 3phase and ran off of a "servo drive" most are rated at over 300vac and their drive shafts are closer to 5/8 inch dia.   The Kollmorgan I've been talking about is close to 100lbs in weight and it's drive shaft is over 1 1/8 dia.  

Back in the "good old days" I had a nice chat with ZUBBLY (I miss him too!).  I talked to him about using servo motors in a windmill and he did have some doubts but said "just because I haven't tried it" doesn't mean it won't work.  He was very interested in "looking into" servo motors himself..  

I'm not suggesting that a servo motor is the answer to windmills but I would like to see more people exploring this avenue!

I purchased a few servo motors for a local junk dealer..  paid the going scrap rate in LBS  (scrap metal and not copper price).   To test the motor while still on the junk pile I used a coin to short the heavy pins on the connectors and turned the shafts by hand..  every one I checked proved to generate power.

So anyhow,  if I had a "junked" servo motor that had a brake on it I'd not worry about ruining it by taking it apart..  they are pretty much useless with the brake!

Now this might be getting close to thread jacking!   sorry!

Mark

ax7

[wingman1776]

Well after all the talk I went for it and I got the brake out of the motor. I did not have to removed the magnets from the windings. Here are pics of the inside of the motor and the brake parts I took out.

Thanks guys for all you comments I got the motor put back together and will figure out way to run a couple out put tests. Will post results