Off-Grid Home

[wdyasq]

Government housing is very efficient. I notice this house only cost the taxpayer $1,125 per square foot.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090515/METRO/905150392/1448/LIFESTYLE14/Troy-s-celebrated-solar-hou



se-left-in-dark

Of course, if it was properly designed a mistake by an occupant wouldn't cause major problems. However, the world develops more ingenious fools and more ignorant designers.

Ron

[bob g]

hmmmm 900kilobucks to build a house that didn't make in through it first winter?

i don't care what the reason was!

if government is the answer, i don't wanna know the question!

at this rate dodge will be trying to sell dysfunctional pickup trucks for 200 grand

by this time next year.

(and they are waiting for a grant so they can start the repairs?)

folks look to government to fix our problems?  we are doomed as a species!

bob g

[Opera House]

I have a solar powered house and the pipes freeze and break every year.  Hardly a news story.

[spinningmagnets]

Over at www.builditsolar.com one of the featured projects is a backyard shed (one-car garage sized) that has one of the long sides oriented for maximum winter solar collection.

It is a trickle-collector system that not only has a very good square-foot/cost compared to other types of solar hot water panels, but one of its main features is that when there is no sun on the collector, it drains to the underground storage pit, and the collectors and pipes are dry at night when freezing is a concern.

I doubt the majority of the $900K price was materials in a 800 SqFt structure, Perhaps its was architects and green "consultants".

What could we design and build for a $900K government grant ?

My brother was a seabee (Navy plumber) and was stationed in Adak Alaska for a year. If your pipes are freezing and breaking, they were improperly designed without sufficient precautions.

(pic below) Many people laughed at this guy for spending so much money on his house. It is built on deep concrete piles, the entire lower storey is garages and storage, and although it looks conventional, its built like a tank.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/blogs/theworldinpictures/2008/09/gilchrist_texas_destroyed_by_h.ph
p

If you live where its extra cold, extra hot, brushfire country, floodplain, tornado alley...your homes construction should reflect the local concerns, yet when I watch the news, houses across the country have many similarities. Maximum interior square footage with cheapest possible construction.

A smaller house built for local concerns (freezing pipes) should be the norm, but they had only one system to protect pipes (battery operated electric pipe heaters) and there was no back-up or warning system to alert that a vital system had failed.

Minimal design and construction for $900K...

[bob g]

i fully realize that before a single board was nailed, there was money to pay the grant writers, consultants, atty's, press agents, architects, a myriad of engineers, and their firms, permits, licensing,  bonding, insurance, costs of constuction loans, cost of the land, blah blah blah ad infinitum...

probably wasn't 50 grand in actual materials, and maybe another 50 grand in total labor had they got their act together and gotten out of the way,, but as we all know

there were hundreds of last minute alterations, work stoppage, etc etc,

bottom line is if i couldn't build an 800 sq/ft home for less than 50 grand and have

it totally offgrid, something would be wrong? like maybe i didn't do my research and got too many cooks in the kitchen.

bob g

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

If there was insurance why is it mothballed waiting for a grant for repairs?

[spinningmagnets]

Lawyers fighting over who's liable. For some odd reason, they always seem to focus on the entity that has deep-pockets...

[RogerAS]

Bob,

I couldn't agree more!

I live in a little 16' X 24' cabin that fills all of my wife and my needs. We have about $8K in the house and about $3K in the RE. Never had a froze pipe, never been cold and never been out of power. Now, we do suffer a wee bit in our hot Arkansas summers, but another $2K of solar will cure that. So for $13 K two people can live comfortably. That works out to $6.5K per person.

Yes, we did all the work ourselves, and that lowered the costs. Big deal. It doesn't take a PhD to build a house. If you can read a tape measure and understand a square and spirit level everything else is easy.

The bottom line is far too many people want those stupid McMansions, every electronic toy out there and leave every light they own burning 80%+ of the time. It's well past time that we Americans alter our thinking and stop insisting that we have the latest and greatest of everything.

Imagine how our meager 16X24 cabin must look like a palace to some people living in the 3rd world, or the homeless here.

[wdyasq]

I'm glad to see the comments on cost. I am planning on an ~900SF McMansionettee as my next residence. It will, of course, be solar and wind powered, off-grid if possible.

My initial plans are for ~$15k for 3kW solar and inverters. It should allow a well-insulated small home to be air-conditioned in the Texas summer. I will be using a variable speed inverter type air-conditioner and at least three zones so if it does get menacingly hot, the cooling can be restricted to a bedroom or bedrooms only.

It will have porches(screened) on all sides and the South porches will be arranged to place glazing for heating in the winter. It will also have batch style water heaters and a water collection system.

I will need an ~10kW 3PH generator to power my band saw or table saw (yes, I have some honker woodworker tools). The battery bank size is 'to be determined'. It should be at least enough to keep the freezer, refrigerator and monitoring systems for a week 'in the dark'.  In fact, I may go as far as to make that a separate system using dedicated batteries and inverter.

The main reason for such a large house is not for me, I live in under 400SF and find it plenty. The reason is the ability to sell the house and prove to others, 'it can be done'. It will take good planning and extreme attention to detail to succeed in building such a residence at a reasonable cost.

Ron

[Chuck]

Ron,

800 sq ft for $900k is a bit on the pricey side. My 1200 sq ft home cost me around $50k, but I splurged on some pricey stuff. I believe it could be built for about 1/2 that with a few key changes. You supply the labor of course. It's primarily passive solar heated, highly insulated, off grid and the pipes don't freeze.

Unlike many of the comments on the original article, I don't equate living off grid or "green" with freezing in the dark. On the contrary, it's the most comfortable house I've ever lived in; winter and summer.

Houses are fairly complex projects. There are few places where the "keep it simple, stupid" philosophy pays off more. Design what works and build it well. Don't be afraid to do your own work, but know what you're doing too.

Cheers !

[wdyasq]

Chuck,

This won't be my first ... or even 10th home to build. It won't even be my first solar tempered home. That one was built in 1978 and I hope she still enjoys it.

I feel much as you do where simpler is better. I think the most important thing is attention to detail. Improper sealing around windows, doors and light switches can waste as much energy as poor insulation or sorry windows.

Proper design AND execution is what makes things work. Having several chases of conduit and being able to get to all of the utilities to service makes fixing that leak or running a new outlet a minor job instead of a major project. I guarantee I will have access to most areas without a ladder or many tools where problems are apt to occur. I actually plan on a bit of living area sacrifice just to assure it is serviceable from the workman's point of view.

Hell, oops, HECK, I'll even set it up where the solar panels and inverters can be removed and it could become just an energy efficient house!

Ron

[Stonebrain]

Cool

My 150m2(about 1500sqf) house cost me about 100K euro,9 years ago.

It isn't off grid but energie efficient.

Walls are 40 cm thick alveoled brick and a traditinal roofconstruction.

Meant to last very longtime.

Send some pics when your project is avancing,thanks.

cheers,

stonebrain

[Stonebrain]

100.000 euro=about 135.000$

Expensif compared to prices mentioned above

§But I didn't execute any of the work myself(except designing)

And maybe prices are different in europe.

cheers,

stonebrain

[Opera House]

Perhaps the real story is that things are becoming too complicated for the general public to operate.   Anyone find it unusual that this home wasn't remotely monitored and watched by hundreds of people as they collected data on their individual design efforts.  Everyone thought heat wasn;t their job.

A washing machine used to last 15 to 20 years.  A new front loader with all its electronics has a life expectancy of 4-5 years and costs three times more.  A bearing failure in a LG wipes out the in drum motor and makes it worthless.  Repairmen don't know how to fix the electronics and just hand out discount coupons on a new machine.

All this is a boon to those who are technically oriented and and pick up the pieces.  My 27 inch LCD TV (only a 1 1/2 year old) cost me $30 because a repair shop said it couldn't fix it.  But the vast majority of people are like my parents that can't get the time set on their stove clock.  My wife says if I die  she is going to walk away from the camp and let it go for taxes.  She can't figure out how to get the lights, water, and sewer to work.

[turby44]

i live in an off grid home,its 1600sqft and powered by 2 wind turbines and solar panels.our living quarters are upstairs and bedrooms downstairs.it has pumped 30mmcavity and internally drylined,the boiler burns everything and the pipework is such that in an event of powershutdown[has,nt happened in 4 years] the hot water will circulate by gravity and  still heat the living quarters.the insulation is 6inch wool and a 2L2 shield over the wool,costly but very effective.

 our biggest problem was the fridge,in the end we set up a 3 way waeco fridge and run it mostly on gas,in stormy weather we switch the fridge over to electric and this helps git rid of the excess energy from the mill.despites the fact that the mains elecetricty runs past the top of our driveway i have never applied for it and have no intention of doing so.

  i am a retired builder and bricklayer by trade and in my youth was a fan of frank lloyd wright,it took me many years to understand the mistakes and false road he led us down.however i was not prepared for the present crop of ejit architects who claim to perform miracles and expect building to rest on sky hooks.thats what is wrong,these guys show their clients the big house [ barn ] that the jones down the road are building and encourage them to build bigger without any thought as to how to heat or maintain their efforts.they experiment with their clients money.

  our house would be the smallest house i have built in the past 15 years,most of my clients houses were 3,000sq ft,plus,for 2 people ,no kids.i shudder to think of their present circumstances in this recession.sadly,i think we will get to see lots of  big empty houses [barns] dotted round this countryside.i blame the architects for their bad advice and greedy fees. they should be made to visit their sites, explain themselves and called to task.who knows,it could happen yet.

            errrrr, i rant a bit,

                       turby,

[Airstream]

Gee whiz, whadda tease, count my vote for at least one picture (not of the empty barns, of your lovely 1600sqft off grid home) ...

This may be bent but when I lived and worked on the East Coast I knew a Gov't employee who looked at the McMansions and explained they would suit for three of more families in an emergency event if/when a whole region was evacuated (ie: supervolcano, NBC attack, China Syndrome, etc.) and ever since that's what I think of when I see them! Who knew the nouveau riche would be so generous : )