Author Topic: Peak Oil has probably happened  (Read 1887 times)

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dnix71

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Peak Oil has probably happened
« on: August 07, 2009, 11:32:31 PM »
http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/08/03/as-long-as-the-economy-depends-on-cheap-oil-dont-hold-you



r-breath-for-a-recovery/


The actual peak occurred in 2006 or 2008, but governments keep saying it will be 10 years away.


http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5177

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=200239

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow1w33VAPII

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil


The Chinese seem to be set up well. They are ramping up eBike production, and people are leaving their cars at home to save money.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2009-07-25-china-electric-bike_N.htm


Unfortunately, the carbon-neutral push will mean lights out for even first-world countries like the UK unless they just say NO to Al Gore and the EU agreements to limit carbon emissions.


http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14177328&source=hptextfeature


Without oil civilization itself is in trouble. What doesn't travel by oil is made from it.


http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html


The Arabs have a saying about how short the cheap oil civilization will be:


"My grandfather rode a camel. My father rode in a car. I fly a jet airplane. My grandson will ride a camel"


http://peakoil.blogspot.com/2008/06/skeptics-doubt-saudi-arabia-can-boost.html


I prefer to ride a bicycle, just like the Chinese.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 11:32:31 PM by (unknown) »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 08:33:47 PM »
This looks like another variant on the "always going to run out of resources in thirty years" phenomenon:  When they have 30 years reserves they cut back on exploring, because there's little point in spending money NOW to find oil that won't be tapped for 30 years:  Investing the money in something that makes a profit instead and spending the result on exploration later makes more money for investors than sinking the money into exploration now and letting the resource sit in the ground for decades.  When there are more than 30 years known reserves it's because somebody happened to make a BIG find - maybe while looking for something else.


Similarly, any oil field that is already tapped will gradually run out of oil and/or gas pressure and the production of each of its wells will drop.  So as soon as they've drilled all the wells they're going to the field has "peaked" and "it's downhill from here".


IMHO maybe oil production has peaked.  But if so it's probably because the demand cratered due to the depression and by the time it starts ramping up a lot of the energy will be coming from other sources, not because we've sucked the planet nearly dry.


Eventually we WILL suck it down to where it's getting tight.  But that will raise the price and drive energy use to other sources.  So there will be petroleum (at progressively higher cost) for the foreseeable future for other purposes, such as chemical synthesis.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 08:33:47 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

bob golding

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 06:44:34 AM »
i notice exxon is investing in oil bearing algae research. a prime example of maintaining investor confidence according to ulr,s  criteria. i dont know about the US but over here in the UK the tankers are queuing up along the english channel  waiting for someone to buy there crude. no one is refining it while the market is depressed. if i was a exxon investor i would be banging tables demanding what they are doing about it. pushing a greener image while still thinking about the bottom line is a clever move on there part. i remember in the early 70,s there was a department of  cambridge university working of oil bearing algae. it got closed down though lack of interest. burning oil in ICE engines is not the best way to use such a valuable finite resource given all the other things it is the the only feedstock for.  if it is replaced as fuel for transport i suspect the price will go thought the roof as a feedstock.


bob  

« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 06:44:34 AM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

Airstream

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 07:48:39 AM »
There is a gentleman being investigated since he is due a $100 million bonus but his parent company enjoyed some billions of Gov't protection to weather the recent market challenges. This market makers' favorite scheme was/is putting full super-tankers out of the normal loop only to off-load once prices had risen.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 07:48:39 AM by Airstream »

dbcollen

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 11:01:05 AM »
A good friend of mine worked for Standard Oil in the 70s during the "oil crisis". his job was to inspect and recertify old tanks and tankers, because they needed the room to store all the extra oil and fuel that "didn't exist".


Dustin

« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 11:01:05 AM by dbcollen »

scottsAI

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 11:09:35 AM »
Cant resist: I heard "excess" was dumped in the desert.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 11:09:35 AM by scottsAI »

Madscientist267

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 06:34:01 PM »
Hi, I'm Al Gore, and I invented the oil crisis. ROFLMAO Where does it end?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 06:34:01 PM by Madscientist267 »
The size of the project matters not.
How much magic smoke it contains does !

richhagen

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 04:49:52 AM »
I went to visit my parents a while back, and their blackberries were ripe for picking.  I went out to the vines and picked the easiest to get at ones on the outside areas of the growth of the vines.  After I picked the easy ones, I went after the harder to get at ones on the inside.  These were a wild variety with the sharp thorns, so the going was much slower and tougher to get the same amount of berries that I had easily gotten from the outside edges.  There were a few of them in there that it just wasn't worth the effort and getting scraped up to go and get.  


The point of that is that it is kind of analogous to how the oil situation is, as I see it.  When we first started getting oil, it would practically bubble up out of the ground, or shoot a geyser when we hit the easy spots.  Those are mostly gone now, and we are on to the harder to get at stuff.  We are probably not going to run out of oil anytime soon, but the effort required to get at what is left will steadily increase.  


One way to look at it might be the amount of energy required to get a certain amount of energy out of the ground as oil.  The percent of the energy of the oil recovered that is required to gather it will steadily increase.  At some point, it will no longer be worth getting at what is left from an energy perspective, but we are not there yet.  


Replacing the Joules of energy that we get from fossil fuels is a formidable task to say the least.  I am not a doom sayer who says that it will be impossible, but it will not be easy, and will not be done without significant investment in alternatives.  Even are oil infrastructure took huge investment and many years too build, and we did that instead of alternatives because it was the easiest.  Most of the alternatives do not have such a favorable energy return on the energy invested as do fossil fuels.  Solar is an example of this, although it depends to a large extent upon the useful life of the panels.  Wind power has made steady gains as the technology improves and the energy required to gather sufficient fossil fuels increases, and nuclear is probably already on a par or better, security and dangerous byproducts notwithstanding, fusion and other as yet undeveloped technologies may or may not pan out, time will tell but they are probably quite a few years off at best.  As time goes by, these alternatives will become increasingly favorable when compared against an ever more difficult to recover fossil fuel supply.  I do forsee shortages and enforced conservation in our futures, especially if populations continue to increase in an unsustainable manner as this contributes to our energy usage growing in an also unsustainable manner.  One way or another those trends will change though.


This of course does not even take into account the often debated effects of putting all of that carbon from fossil fuels into our atmosphere.  

« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 04:49:52 AM by richhagen »
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BoroDave C

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Re: Peak Oil has probably happened
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 06:36:14 AM »
Spot on Rich and it's really just an individuals estimated measure of time and when he or she realizes "peak" has/ will arrive. Peak can be defined by those in the market (return on investment)or it can be measured by those who wish to see us move in a cleaner, in-house and more sustainable direction. Those of the later usually come to the conclusion enough is enough and gear up for those forced conservation measures before The Wall Street Journal reveals "peaks" validity to those of the prior.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 06:36:14 AM by BoroDave C »