Author Topic: Induced Current to Boil Water  (Read 5463 times)

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argmematey180

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Induced Current to Boil Water
« on: October 27, 2007, 02:41:02 PM »
Hello,


As previously stated, I am trying to boil water using a PM alternator, and I have some questions. Fieldlines seems like the best place to find some practical answers.

       My first thought was to short together the leads of the alternator coils so that the wires would heat up as the magnets spun, but then I wasn't sure what thickness wire to use and how many turns. Since Power=(Current squared) * (Resistance), my guess would be that thicker wire would be best, but perhaps this is wrong (Obviously, the wire has to be able to withstand temperatures of 212 degrees fahrenheit and above, so it has to be fairly thick anyhow). Also, would it be best to go 3-phase with this, or would 2-phase be better?

       My second thought was to simply attach a resistor to the outputs and let it heat up. What type of resistor should I use? Would a piece of steel or iron be ok, or should it be a store bought electrical resistor of known resistance? Would all the heat be concentrated in the resistor, so that the wires remained cool, or would it spread out?

       Any advice I can get would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 02:41:02 PM by (unknown) »

wdyasq

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 08:56:21 AM »
Where does one start? Are you planning on heating water at the mill, in the stator? If not, why do you need high temperature wire? I believe you have a lot of miss-information and miss-conceptions about the processes involved.


Personally, I believe you need to do a LOT more research. The normal way to heat water is to use the electricity in conjunction with a resistive heating element.


The use of a high grade energy, electricity, to heat water is foolishness, IMO. But, this is your project and there are no rules against fools I am familiar with. A good search and some basic electricity knowledge would be a good idea before you proceed further on your project.


Ron

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 08:56:21 AM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

argmematey180

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 09:06:02 AM »
Clarification: this PMA is going to use pedal-power (as in a bicycle), NOT wind power. I have no reason to boil water at the top of a 60-foot tower.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 09:06:02 AM by argmematey180 »

vawtman

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 10:45:03 AM »
Maybe you could build something like Eds cavitation heater.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 10:45:03 AM by vawtman »

wdyasq

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 10:47:36 AM »
I think he is going to learn how to like COLD showers.


Ron

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 10:47:36 AM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

Flux

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 11:41:18 AM »
Agreed!


Some people seem to have no idea of the energy required to do certain things.


If you must use spinning magnets to heat water then a coil of small bore copper pipe with water passing through would seem a good starting point. Why worry about windings and connections for a waste product.


However you wound the pipe inside the spinning field it would probably stall the man engine. I think I would try a simple spiral and not bother to wind it into technical shaped coils. If the losses were still not great enough then solder it to a 1/8" copper disc.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 11:41:18 AM by Flux »

wooferhound

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2007, 12:38:05 PM »
I was thinking that you could use the heating element from a Coffee Maker . . .
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 12:38:05 PM by wooferhound »

wdyasq

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2007, 01:27:24 PM »
Coffee Makers are ~1500W ...... 1500W = ~2HP


Woof, that is one awesome bicycling stud .... and, "Reality is a word we just like to use."


Ron

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 01:27:24 PM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

argmematey180

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2007, 01:39:19 PM »
Ron-you're right, using a common appliance isn't going to work because they all have power ratings that are much too high. Perhaps I should ask a broader question that would clear up any confusion. What would be the best way to convert mechanical power from a bicycle into 212 degrees fahrenheit? Friction's obviously a possibility, but I'm not sure how you'd build it so that it didn't wear out after a few thousand rotations.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 01:39:19 PM by argmematey180 »

KEG

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2007, 01:49:29 PM »
OK now were getting some where, Friction will work, use it to start the fire,and I think the forulla is one btu = one lbs h2o rise 1 deg F, ya do have a forest handy don't you ?


gofor it

Kevin

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 01:49:29 PM by KEG »

argmematey180

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2007, 02:03:23 PM »
no forest, can't use external sources. all has to come from bike.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 02:03:23 PM by argmematey180 »

DanG

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2007, 02:09:36 PM »
Is there such thing as a single cup immersion heater for 12VDC the way they have them for 120VAC? At least after the exercise one might get a cup of tea out it.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 02:09:36 PM by DanG »

Flux

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2007, 02:19:06 PM »
It makes little difference whether you use friction, eddy currents alternators to heaters or anything else, it still takes the same energy to raise the temperature of a given quantity of water the same number of degrees.


At best you can get probably about 95% direct from eddy currents or friction and if you go the alternator and heater method and you only manage 70% that doesn't make much difference, you still need an elephant to pedal it.


If you can pedal 200W for 30 minutes you should be able to boil 1 litre of water if you make it 100% efficient. If that is the sort of effort you want to go to and that is the sort of quantity you need then it will work if you can lag it well enough to reduce virtually all heat loss.


Someone check my figures please.


Flux

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 02:19:06 PM by Flux »

Darren73

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2007, 04:18:55 PM »
Flux,

Assuming you started at 15 Deg C then I agree with your figures


Regards

Darren

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 04:18:55 PM by Darren73 »

juddley

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2007, 09:26:54 PM »
Sure is..... use one frequently.


http://www.familyonboard.com/car_boat_vacuums.html





Juddley

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 09:26:54 PM by juddley »

Kevin L

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2007, 07:16:36 AM »
  Eddy currents will use up a lot of your power output and heat the coils.  Of course you could heat your cup of water by flowing water over the coils, but what a mess.  If you are looking to spend some money, then I would try a hydraulic pump through a high resistance low flow loop. That way at least most of the power will go to heating the water.  Keep several water jackets between your coffee and the oil.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 07:16:36 AM by Kevin L »

Norm

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What is your goal? A cup of coffee?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 07:33:37 AM »
....If so, it wouldn't be necessary to bring the water

 to 212 degrees, but according to what

Flux stated it takes 30 minutes to heat 1 liter

of water to boiling at 200 watts.....according

to my calculations one of my coffee cups (not a

mug) is about .2 of a liter rough estimate....

would take about 3-4 minutes at 100 watts.

  A 12 volt coffeemaker takes about 15 minutes

for 1st cup and 45minutes for a full pot

according to the manufacturer....the 12 volt

immersion heater at 120 watts would be your

best bet at any rate....I would think for

whatever reason you would have to boil water.

  A short section of heating element salvaged

from a clothes dryer, by experimenting you can

find the right length that will draw about 10

amps at 12 volts will also work.

         ( :>) Norm.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 07:33:37 AM by Norm »

Norm

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2007, 07:47:09 AM »
   Well if he really wanted to do it....a 1.5k

generator hooked up to a 10 speed bike find a

really high...long hill and enough weight and at

the bottom of the hill 10 minutes later he would

have 3 cups of coffee enough for the three of us,

(you and I would be waiting at the bottom of the

hill)



   Norm.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 07:47:09 AM by Norm »

argmematey180

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Re: What is your goal? A cup of coffee?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2007, 08:33:33 AM »
Thanks Norm
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 08:33:33 AM by argmematey180 »

electrondady1

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Re: What is your goal? A cup of coffee?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2007, 06:00:55 PM »
a nice cup of tea after your morning workout!

it's a perfect world !
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 06:00:55 PM by electrondady1 »

coldspot

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 01:25:09 AM »
Look at this,

"http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/10/3/195821/664"

or maybe this, if you can make volts already,

"http://hydrogenappliances.com/hotwater.html"

a bit crazy but I can't say  that people don't say that about my stuff.

good luck

:)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:25:09 AM by coldspot »
$0.02

davidmlantz

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Re: Induced Current to Boil Water
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2007, 10:13:45 AM »
It all depends on how much water you want to boil and why.  I see a few solutions, but to boil any real amount of water (say over the tablespoon amounts) you really need another source of low grade heat, like a loop of copper pipe attached to a solar hot water tank.  Take the outputs from the generator and wire them to thermoelectric elements (like those giant 350watters seen all over ebay), sandwiched between the warm water loop from the tank and your small tank of water to be boiled.  You might need some control electronics in between, I've read that spikes and dips are bad for the peltiers and shorten the lifespan.


The second option I see would a stirling engine used in reverse as a water heater, physically attached to the crank of the bike (in place of the generator), you would also need a source of low grade heat, like a solar warm water tank.


If you're looking into distilling water, then something like a reverse osmosis filter might work better for you, you might be able to use a water pump to push the water through instead of using the energy to heat the water.


What are you doing with the water?

Thanks, Dave

« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 10:13:45 AM by davidmlantz »