Author Topic: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures  (Read 18624 times)

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BCborn

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Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« on: July 09, 2005, 07:56:11 PM »
Hi folks!


I have just finished a 24' (diameter) Mongolian Yurt, constructed on a deck, built on an acreage in BC Canada. My friend, the landowner, also has one, and has been living in his dwelling for 4 yrs, and has seen winter temperatures down to -30c.


I am interested in discussing these structures with others. In our climate, shelters really need to withstand adverse weather conditions. 80+ mp/h winds and subzero temperatures are not uncommon here. Although many fantastic options are available, price is, and has been, a huge concern for us. I constructed my entire Yurt for less than $800 US.


Breakdown of my setup:


Khanas (wall latices) are comprised of 160 khana sticks, with 5 holes in each


Khanas are bolted together with 5/16 hardware


Rafters (24) are 2x4 construction, 11.6' ft. terminated at a 42" plywood hub, using Hurricane Truss clips, bent, and drilled. Rafter mounted with 1/4" hardware.


Walls were lined with Aluminum Foil Reflectix Bubblewrap and are rated at R 8.3 when used vertically. 6 mil Greenhouse Poly cover the reflectix, followed by used (FREE) decommisioned heavy vinyl Truck Tarps (blue color).


Top was constructed from first Reflectics (R 14.3 horizontal), then a 30x30 (square) polt top, and finally a white weather tarp. This is a cheap method, and we have since switched to using Sileage Tarp, mainly because it is available in 30 ft widths (no tape joints). A 30x100 roll is available for about $160 CDN, and it is 6 mil, black one side, white the other. This is enough material to make three tops, or one top and walls for a Yurt. My landlord went all out and ordered a vinyl 13 guage one piece top, white in color, but it was over $1000. Its main advantage is puncture strength. Give the nature of a Yurt, wind does not affect the structure like ordinary sheds etc., so roof top strength is not a huge issue - more is the method of tying it down. My Yurt top does not leak and we are constantly hammered with rain and recently winds over 100 km/h on occasion. It is however, very noisy inside during these times! I have a window in my top, which offers fantastic ay (and even night) light. If I did again, I would have used clear bubble wrap in the window panel (where the Reflectics is interrupted) instead of poly for better insulation. At the time I thought I wanted the clarity - for more light, but I learned that due to the reflective interior - you dont want "clear" windows of any size, your environment turns more "greenhouse". All of my poly (clear) windows are now covered in white tarps to actually diminish this effect, but still allow light. Clear bubble wrap, (if available in 3' wide) sheets would be ideal, diminished light and insulation.


My Yurt is heated with a small airtight woodstove.


My lighting is mainly achieved by outdoor solar lights, used indoors. They even charge while inside the Yurt, but I often take the out on a rack I made and sit them in the light. On a rainy day they will charge better in my Yurt, under the Skylight than they will outdoors - due to the fact they do not condensate.


Some Pointers:


Do not skip the reflectics. They are essential in any climate both to keep the heat in at night and the heat out during the day. Rememeber reflectics is not insulation - it bounces heat, like a survival blanket. Skipping the reflectics will leave you with a muggy, damp Yurt that may even "rain" inside. An Alternative for Polar climates would be refletics/insulation/reflctics.


My Questions:


My Yurt floor is actually used, free 2x10 planks over the joice work, therefore the ground is under me, no moisture barrier. My skirting is poly to allow light in to control mildew / mold. I have open areas to let air in (but it is VERY important to skirt a Yurt on a deck or the wind will get underneath and inflate your Yurt, believe me its quite the experience, I saw 100 km/h winds inflate my Yurt, and there was nothing actually holding it down! I thought the thing was going to Take OFF! Fortunately it didnt and I got my skirting into place)


Any pointers on further mold control? I am wondering I i shouldnt have removed the forest floor humus (I was rushed and may do that in August when it is nice and dry) I am reluctant to put vapour Barriers under my floor - it will create an environment that connot breathe - right now plants actually live under my Yurt, grow, and stay green. Tree Frogs live under there. This all tells me so far so good - Id ont want to seal and darken the area, I personally beleive moving air and UV are good things.


Anyone want to see pictures?

« Last Edit: July 09, 2005, 07:56:11 PM by (unknown) »

bob golding

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2005, 02:10:37 PM »
yes please, i am in the process of building a 16 foot yurt myself. got all the wood, it is green oak and is seasoning at the moment. i thought of using that foil backed bubble wrap as well. i have a few bits over the windows in my coach,read greenhouse without insulation. for my sleeping area i have 3 sheets of 25 mm  flooring grade "blue board" i think it is called your side of the  pond. high density polyueathane. i am particulary interested in how you did the ring at the top. still thinking about that one. have given up on trying to get canvas at a decent price. its around 4 ukpounds a  sq metre. i can get 100 foot of 3 foot wide foil backed bubble wrap for around 100 uk pounds whick will be plenty for the walls. i dont have to many problems with the cold never gets below about - 5 centigrade. we do get 100 mph winds though, but were i intend to put it there is a sheltering wall and hedge which  should help.


cheers

bob golding uk

« Last Edit: July 09, 2005, 02:10:37 PM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

whatsnext

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2005, 01:52:39 PM »
I'm very curious about something. How long should one last? Five years, twenty? Or is it more like a semi permanent camp? I love one room living so these would be nice if you weren't rebuilding them all the time.

Thanks, John.....
« Last Edit: July 10, 2005, 01:52:39 PM by whatsnext »

hvirtane

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2005, 03:48:39 PM »
Hello,


your story about your Mongolian jurt

is very interesting.


Could you, please post some pictures

here, inside and outside.  


I wanted to ask many questions,

but maybe some pictures would

answer to some of my questions.


- Hannu

« Last Edit: July 10, 2005, 03:48:39 PM by hvirtane »

bob golding

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2005, 04:14:53 PM »
hi john,

 from what have read if you make the  frame out of oak it should last about 60 years. if you use canvas for the cover this will need replacing every 5 years. no figures on  other materials. these figures are for mongolian gers, the correct name for them. think yurt is a russian name for home. they move theirs about 4 times a year so if you dont move much they will last longer.


bob golding

 

« Last Edit: July 10, 2005, 04:14:53 PM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

whatsnext

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2005, 09:41:46 PM »
Bob, So is portability part of the appeal? And, if you were not planning on adopting the nomatic lifestle would you be better off with regular construction. A friend of mine had planned on a geodesic dome but is now looking at copying the RAL system.

John........
« Last Edit: July 10, 2005, 09:41:46 PM by whatsnext »

ghurd

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2005, 10:37:43 PM »
I stayed in one at a state campground.

A couple photos on their site,

http://www.ohiodnr.com/parks/parks/pymatuning.htm

G-
« Last Edit: July 10, 2005, 10:37:43 PM by ghurd »
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bob golding

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2005, 03:32:09 AM »
hi john,

 i think the main appeal is  the design. the mongolians have had around 2000 years to perfect it. although  they  designed it for  thier nomadic lifestyle there is no disadvantage in not  moving it. i have  worked with various domes from  10 feet to 60 foot, and  i dont see any great advantage ,but a lot of problems you dont get with a ger. these are mainly to do with the basic conscruction of the frame. lots of joints to  break or wear out, and thats after you have worked out the angles and made them in the first place.dont get me wrong i like domes but for the work involved i thing a ger is a better bet. smaller footprint as well,thanks to the vertical walls which also means its lowe, which  improves the wind resistance.


bob golding

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 03:32:09 AM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2005, 05:19:01 PM »
Sure -


I will work on that. I used to have a digi-cam but someone stole it from my car - so it may take a little while. You may also like to see: www.yurts.com. Commercial prices for a 24' Yurt, range from $3000 - $12,500 from what I've seen, but that was way out of my budget - in fact, for under $3000 I will have built, plumbed, furnished, and heated my Yurt. As far as I know, many commercial models don't include reflectics, either, for that price! I can't imagine living in a Yurt without reflectics - however I live in the Canadian Rockies - an extreme area to be tenting 24/7 hehe. I will mention however, this is and always be a learning experience. To keep things in perspective our requirements were:



  1. Structure had to have enough living space to be comfortable, so 24' (450+ sq ft.) was our minimum size, unless your talking a bedroom addon Yurt.
  2. Structure should cost less than $1500 to build.
  3. Structure should withstand highwinds (100 mph +) and cold temperature (-30 c)
  4. Structure should be portable, and be able to build in about a week.


My Yurt meets these criteria - although I may end up paying for a few mistakes - we will see. An interesting thing about Yurts is, whenever you step away from the original Mogolian design - there are Pro's and Cons - Always - if only expense.

We have actually built a 16 ft Yurt from scratch for less than $100. It is however, more of shed than anything - but, it has followed the traditional Mongolian Design - using tree branches, and inexpensive canvass. The simpler the Yurt, the more portable - another consideration.


Thats it for now!

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 05:19:01 PM by BCborn »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2005, 05:32:57 PM »
The Hub.


The hub is in an integral part of the Yurt for sure. Our initial design is what I have in my Yurt. It is very simple. In my Yurt, the walls were made from 7' khana sticks, so my wall height is approximately 6'10. This is a bit high for a Yurt, but I'm a tall guy, so it was a compromise. I read somewhere that the wall heaight effects the ability to resist wind, and the lower, the better. While this primarily true, keep in mind even the walls have curvature. Having experienced very high winds I can tell you the walls were my least concern. What is of great concern is that wind does not get under your tarping, roofing, and in my case under your deck. My worst nightmare happened, as I was constructing the Yurt we receive tree-downing 90 mph winds and I didnt have any skirting around the deck! I didnt even have the Yurt "bra" (ropes that hold the top down, and the yurt to the deck itself). I thought the whole sucker was going to lift off and end up in alberta - it was really something to see! The top "mushroomed" there was so much air movement into the structure from winds getting underneath. The walls didnt budge not even an inch.

Nothing was actually holding down the Yurt to the deck, at all! It survived because of two reasons. 1. My reflectics are realitively heavy, and the second layer is poly, the third is white tarping. The wind would have had to rip the reflectics up ward, and literally pull the entire top up, and underneath the only rope I had holding down the top (imagine the roof overlapping the walls 16", with a rope wrapped all the way around the Yurt just below where the rafters meet the top of wall - on the outside). I had the rope just snugged enough that its actually diameter was less than the rooftop edge, and this was a good thing - nearly impossible for the wind to do damage. I have, of course, since added a top "bra, or second ring, which is fastened down, not only holding the top in place, but holds the Yurt to the deck. Another important part is don't make your deck any larger than the diameter - you'll have water running into your yurt.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 05:32:57 PM by BCborn »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2005, 05:38:33 PM »
somehow the hub data got lost:


It is made circular of 3/4" plywood, 42" in diameter with hurricane clips encircling it. (metal brackets used to secure trusswork to topplates on conventional wood framed walls). They are not for this purpose - but keep in mind, this sctructure is nonconventional, non-conforming. In Canada you need not apply for permits for a Yurt, and I build my whole house for less than 1/3 of the cost of building permits on a woodframe home for my area. The difference is enormous and was essential, for example a normal home might cost $125 per sq ft to build - mine cost less than $2.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 05:38:33 PM by BCborn »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2005, 05:43:06 PM »
In my case I am looking at a 5 yr plan. The khanas, hub, rafters, and deck will indoubetdly last much longer. Larry's Yurt "top" is made of expensive vinyl used in semi-truck tarping, and is warranteed for 15 yrs. My rooftop is highly experimental, and cheap. It will be beat by next spring. However, it only takes an afternoon to change the top, and its inexpensive. I think, Yurts, unless you are a durable type, are mostly a temporary housing solution:


HOWEVER


if you wanna things further, build a Wood Frame Yurt. I highly recommend these over geodesic domes, they are cheapier and better in wind. It follows a similiar design concept but is usually an octogan shape of wood walls.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 05:43:06 PM by BCborn »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2005, 05:57:02 PM »
I won't pretend to whitewash my reasons or reason for appeal. My appeal to this house design is that its is DIRT CHEAP, + it's effective. Not too mention it requires no building permits (non-conforming considered portable - no different than setting up a tent in your back yard).


There are lot of "hippy" appeals that apply more to Larry and Vicky my landlords who got me into this. To some they are very real, to others they are silly - to me they are interesting, but not essential. For example - when you live in a conventional home, you are segregating yourself from the earth - what I mean by that is, you are putting concrete slabs and such between you and the earth below. Many, many people, especially native respect Earth's energies. Modern homes, simply do not - they fight the earth and energies and block them. Not being a hippy myself, it really doesnt matter a whole bunch to me - but I will honestly say, I do get a damn get sleep in my Yurt, and have lived in long enough to honestly say there is at least something to it. It is about vibrational energies, both yours a human, and the earths. I'm not going to go into it deeper than that.


The tradeoff is working with shifting levels of humidity and temperature. Keep in mind my Yurt is actually not insulated, yet it functions in -30c! That is pretty bizarre, but it's possible due to radiant heat energy. That isn't to say when I come home the Yurt is stone cold, cause I dont have the heat on. My sun roof panels actually let in heat, the walls bounce it around and it is trapped. It takes about -10 to -15 before my Yurt is below freezing, with NO HEAT. Upon firing my small airtight stove it heats up very fast. Here in the property there folks that have actually snuck over from their conventional 2x6 insulated wood frame cabins, in -30 to sleep in the Yurts, cause they are warmer! That isnt to say we don't burn a lot of wood, but we live in the forest. Much can be done to amplifify a Yurts solar heating capabilites as well. Think of it this way, you stand inside the thing and its basically an inverted solar cook oven. Containing trapped heated via black water barrels filled with antifreeze, is one method I plan on employing so my Yurt is self heating in the winter, while Im NOT there to burn wood. There are many methods. I once saw a guy with a Yurt, and the whole based was skirted in panels, filled with old decommisioned flourescent tubes, painted black in and out, creating a passive heat exchanger! His calculations were that he had 4ft x 35ft of the south side in this system, and on a sunny day his heat exchanges captured over 12,000 BTU hour. He'd get home in the winter and open up a hatch, voila, tons of heat escaping into his living space. He'd then cover the tubes for night time.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 05:57:02 PM by BCborn »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2005, 06:16:35 PM »
5 years is a very realistic expection. Yurts are not forever - but what $1000 structure is. Your khanas will last much longer, if not moved all the time. Kepp in mind, the heavier you make your khanas - the more stress is placed on making them conform to a circle - and therefore more stress is being placed ont he wood they are made of. Larry used 2x2 sticks for khanas and after 5 yrs they are still in good shape. He has little in the way of UV enetering his Yurt. My khanas are made from 1.5"x5/8" material. Larry after having built his in 2x2 recommended this for several reason. Most importantly, when you cut khanas from B grade lumber its easier to get a nice piece or 5/8"x1.5". This size conforms to a 24" diameter without stress, and is easy to work with. They fold up beautiful, and I could easier put my entire Yurt into a utility trailer and tow it with my car. That is not say I would use this size for camping! It's too much work for that unless you plan on camping in that place for at least a month or two. Make a smaller Yurt for camping! There are issues with larger Yurts that dont occure in smaller Yurts when erecting the structure - for example the rafters. Here in the north, Canadian Rockies we get a lof snow. My Yurt is 24' diameter, my rafter length is 11.6. This produces a Yurt with about a 4-12 pitch. At this pitch the heat loss of the Yurt literally makes the snow slide right off. Mongolians use a much slower pitch but I think theyd get less snow than us. It's not like 3 ft of snow is uncommon here, over night. Larry has a much greater pitch, very steep like a Cape Code Home. (8-12?)

His rafter length is 14'. We both use 2x4 for weight load strength. Larryleft for Thailand one year and returned with 4.5 ft of snow on his yurt - however his roofpitch was such that only at the very top did the snow remain - without any heat in his yurt. Mine, on the other hand will handle perhaps less snow, and require occasional cleaning - if no heat is being created inside. Keep in mind, theres no worry of the snow actually collapsing your Yurt, its the fact that between your rafter the weight will create saggage. If you have a steep pitch, 2x4 rafters or pole rafters, 24 rafters per 24' yurt, and a heavy tarp (13 ga. vinyl) you really have nothing to worry about at all. HOWEVER, as I said before there is ALWAYS a trade off for each design consideration. In this case, Larrys Yurt takes longer to heat, heat is lost to the top. In mine, I can increase the temperature of my Yurt over 30 degrees in under 30 minutes, its almost instant on as soon as I light the fire. My stove is glass faced and I keep it clean - this helps the radient heat echange, or at least i think it might - it seems to.


So in summary - think of your yurt as a 3, 5, or 15 year building, depending on your choices in materials, budget.


Having said that, the guy we learned this from has been living in his Yurt for 12 years now and its a cheapie. He throws and afternoon or three of his time and a few hundred bucks at it, per year and has never changed his khanas or rafters, or hub. Only his wall and roof coverings have been replaced and he started with used materials to begin with! (As did I)

« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 06:16:35 PM by BCborn »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2005, 06:31:02 PM »
If you have gone to the trouble of buying oak for khanas (possibly for strength and visual appeal?) i would say go with a conventional rafter POLE (not 2x4) and make either a circular solid frame hub with angled entry holes, or a multisided 4x6 octogan with 3 poles per side. Imagine a wooden donut with 24 holes all around the ring, or an octoganal 4x6 ring. Use only glue and dowels, and avoid nails and screws completely. This can be done best by lamination of wood then drilling it. This is closest to the original Mongolian Ger/Yurt. It is a very strong dsign and beautiful too! Our design is a really a quick and dirt, however due to the nature of the hurricane clips allowing the rafters to pivot, it actually works very well in wind. It looks crappy though. Keep in mingd my Yurt was CHEAP CHEAP, I'm not a wealthy guy, i live VERY meager compared to most.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 06:31:02 PM by BCborn »

bparks

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2005, 08:50:32 PM »
Regarding your question about moisture & mold control, I think that improving drainage around the foundation may be enough.  You seem hesitant to take too strong of measure, which I think is smart :-)  a good slope around the perimiter & perhaps some sort of french drain type system would seem to be the most natural way to dry it out under there & keep it much drier than the surrounding land.  With that much snow & the heat from you yurt it make take a large amount of slope though.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 08:50:32 PM by bparks »

BrianK

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2005, 02:38:09 PM »
I am Loving the idea and it has me thinking of building a smaller version for camping it would be different and fun


 .

« Last Edit: July 13, 2005, 02:38:09 PM by BrianK »

BCborn

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Re: Smaller Yurts
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2005, 03:31:51 PM »
Yes!


I wasn't two days finished, when already I had wished I had gone with more, smaller, Yurts. Building a 24' Yurt all by yourself (for the first time) is a bit of a pain in the butt and at times, can be dangerous, unless you are quite careful. If I started over I would have actually built 3 Yurts. An 18 ft, a 16 and a 14, all attached, but all totally portable. You could literally pull off a bedroom and take it camping with you. Any Yurt is VERY portable mind you, in comparison to any structure with comparable sq. ft floorspace and room volume. Sometimes it is kind of hard to grasp how the thing stands at all, I once had an engineer sit in my Yurt having coffee and he looked around, for about 10 minutes, saying nothing, and then finally he said, you know, this just does not make sense that it even stands! I guess if he were to break out all his formulas and calculator, it would make sense, but I do know what he means LOL. First time visitors often make similiar comments regarding "beefing up" this or that - but, you know, I'm quite satisfied with it's strength, just as is. The cable that encircles the entire yurt, woven through the tops of the khana wall sticks, for example, is only a 3/16" aircraft cable. Guests have said, well you could just make this 5/16" instead couldnt you?? Then I go to the edge of a rafter and demonstrate how little amount of load actually exists at at any one load point by easily sliding the cable in and out of the rafter slot, with next to no effort at all. Often I get the question, well jeeze, you know we live in a normal climate - why didn't you opt for flexible foam insulation istead of this silver stuff? (aluminum reflectics) - the answer is two part - Firstly, flexible blue foam insulation (as used for sleeping mats for camping) could be very useful - especially for say Arctic applications - however - I would still have reflectics both on the weather side, and the interior. If done in a sealed fashion, this would like give you somewhere in the department of R24-R30. The point being, you still need the reflectics. You'd understand when you walked into my Yurt, and it's -10c, I light the small airtight woodstove, and VOILA, not even an hour later is 21c. Insulation alone is not going to make that happen. Radiant heat is very instant on!

Some would argue that the "look" is not appealing, but for me it's more about practicalities.


Smaller Yurts would be so simple to heat, you'd likely have the opposite problem. In a 24' diameter Yurt, with a rafter length of 11.6', and 42" hub on top, your roofvent is about 11'9" inthe air. An incredible amount of warm air collects here. With a smaller Yurt, this is reduced. (keep in mind this design is for Northern areas where snow is of concern. If you took this dimension down to the 18 ft Yurt, you'll find that the heat is closer to your head. I have a 12v RV roof vent fan, to help push the air down, and for winter I'll likely create a reflectics false ceiling to help hold the heat down a bit, in the sleeping area. Concrete pads around the base of the woodstove, and some backing panels (between the stove and the khanas) that will be mostly insulation, with a solar rescue blanket covering, to bounce and retain heat as opposed to losing it to the outside, close by the stove.


Here on the property we all kind of agree it's sure nice to have the 24' if you are living in it fulltime. 32' would be even nicer! If you want to build one and have maximum portability, 18 or 20 is a great size, and so much easier to work with not to mention cheaper to build a top, and walls. If you do go 18 pr even smaller, make sure you dont go overkill on the dimensions of the lumber you use for kahana sticks. Reason being if you used 2x2 for instance, on a 16 or 18 ft yurt, the material is so rigid that it makes turning the khana walls around the radius difficult, and consequently you actualy end up with MORE wall distortion top to bottom, and MORE stress on the boltholes! My landlord found this out when he built an 18 with 2x2, it was pleasant. Hew thought he was playing it safe, building it strong, and he ended up with a worse quality product, really.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2005, 03:31:51 PM by BCborn »

ghurd

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Re: Smaller Yurts
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2005, 11:42:23 PM »
I can't imagine it is possible to assemble a yurt without help from your wife and 3 girlfriends!   :)


But really, maybe toss the RV (power sucking shaded pole?) fan and try a high volume low pressure muffin fan.  1a@110v to 150ma@12v.  Just a thought.

G-

« Last Edit: July 13, 2005, 11:42:23 PM by ghurd »
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bob golding

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Re: Smaller Yurts
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2005, 01:01:33 PM »
the mongolians use there grandmother as well as the wife and 3 girlfriends:-)


really one person can erect a 16 foot ger on there own after a bit of practice. you  do need to  prop the centre ring up as you insert the first 4  roof poles, after that its dead easy to  just add one roof pole at a time. the key to the whole thing is the rope that goes around the top of the khanas. that stops the  roof pushing the walls out. so  as long as that is in place its just a case of carefully inserting the roof poles. i might add i have yet to try this, just repeating what i have read or been told by people who have done it. my main reason for building one is  zoning or planning regs as they are called  this side of the pond. i live in a 40 foot coach at the moment, which is fine but has been noticed so might have to  get rid of it. it is also hell at the moment as we are having a heatwave and the  temp is around 100 degrees  and only drops to 85 at night. i am no a hot weather person. think greenhouse. it also  gets cold in the winter but luckerly  winters here are mild compared to canada. maybe  - 5 c for a few days. there is a good book on yurt construction by paul king called "the complete yurt book" obtainable from the following.

www.chelseagreen.com

it costs  $21.95

well worth it if you are considering  building one.

i used 1 1/2 x 3/4 oak for the sides and bent then slightly in a jig while they where still green. my rafters are  1 1/2 x1 1/2 oak. i used oak mainly because of the work involved in  cleaning up odd bits of  ratty pine. the guy gave me a good deal and cut them all to size for me. if i had to do  all that myself to would have been a major hassle given that i dont have a workshop or any decent woodworking tools. i reckoned by the time i had found someone to do it and paid them i might as well go for the oak. cost a bit more but probaly not that much more. and i can use i as it is.i do have a friend  with a planer/thicknesser so might run them though that to just  make them look a bit smarter then treat them with borax to keep the woodworm out. i am going to use old pallets for the floor with  high density chip board and foam. not quite living  on the earth but hey i will be 4 foot closer than i am now.:-)


bob golding

« Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 01:01:33 PM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

BCborn

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Re: Mold in Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2005, 02:02:47 PM »
Well, so far so good. I sloped the earth away from the Yurt in all directions. Because I have a huge skylight in my Yurt, and the inside is reflectics material, + my floorboards have cracks between them, and my skirting on the south side is clear poly - the ground underneath has dried out. Plant life is still alive under my yurt and the leaves are green. Mold doesnt seem to be a big issue - so far. I may still scratch the earth away from the underside, but I'm not sure if I should. That would leave on clay and sand, making my Yurt even dustier than it already is, + perhapos provide a different grow medium for mold? I'm not a mold expert! I left the top side unskirted to allow a lot of fresh air underneath. I'll have to close it up more for winter but maybe then i will ventilate from inside the yurt.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2005, 02:02:47 PM by BCborn »

bob golding

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Re: Mold in Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2005, 05:59:57 AM »
hi, i remember seing an idea that might be worth invesigating if you have acces to lots of pine trees and a big power saw, chain saw would do. you get tree trunks around 4/6 inch dia larger would proberly do, and  chop them up in 12 inch or so  lengths. then you lay them vertically on yur levelled ground. you fill in the gaps betweem them and you have a dry breathing floor.  you would need a lot for  a 24 foot yurt but i am sure they would work. i saw them being used as a path. any  water goes down the grain of the wood or in between them. not enouth trees around here  to try it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2005, 05:59:57 AM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

ghurd

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Re: Mold in Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2005, 07:45:21 PM »
I have seen cabins held up at the corners and a couple other places between that way.  Like pilings.  It lasts a long time for what I would have expected.  Some were guessed at 30 years old, but that is where there is permafrost and the wood was larger diameter.

G-

« Last Edit: July 24, 2005, 07:45:21 PM by ghurd »
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twombo

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2005, 12:07:17 PM »
Kyle


I'm surprised there aren't more discussions like this one on the board!!! I am very seriously looking at yurts myself. I considering is actually a misstatement, I WILL have a yurt!  I have given much thought to the sizing issute and a cluster seems to make very good sense for my needs.


I have a couple adult children  and their spouses who have similar interests and we are considering  a cooperative effort to get ourselves set up off  the grid, in the hills here in northern california. Our central concept is a 30 foot yurt as common space  and supporting 20 ft yurts for sleeping and private space.


I've read with great interest you use of Reflectix insulation. Yurtco.com has some 24 footers in Yellowknife, NWT that seem to reinforce your experience with the Reflectix.


We are thinking about  building decks for the yurts and plumbing the the whole setup with  radiant hot water heating with a common wood fired boiler (use that to keep the hot tub tasty warm too!).


I like the idea of purchasing the premade top and a homemade canvas  side covers since I have access to an industrial sewing machine.


First things first... I haven't got the land yet!!! Still looking!!  Hard decisons on that to be made.  Nice to be able to say I've got 5, or 10, or even 40 acres!!! But, what does a person actually need to prosper? One, maybe two acres  for a decent amount of elbow room and and room for a substantial garden space?  For a family group maybe 5 acres? What's the right/rational approach? What does one really need? Any thoughts out there???


As much as anything else I guess that is why I am posting ... to poll like minds for thoughts on the "right" amount of property to work with!! The more one feels is needed for space, the more it is going to cost to get started and we all have limited amount of time and money for the dream!


Kyle, I WOULD like to see some pix of your setup.


Thanks friends


Mike

« Last Edit: October 25, 2005, 12:07:17 PM by twombo »

elvin1949

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2005, 07:10:05 PM »
Mike

I live in the boonies [forever]

So

I would say 1.5 acres per person MINIMUM.

You need room for housing,garden's,Small meat animals ie chicken's and rabbit's.

 Plus a couple of wind gennie's and solar panels

plus a power shed and a shop-barn and water well.

With 6 or more people [extended family] you may even have room for a milk cow,without having to import to much feed.

later

Elvin
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 07:10:05 PM by elvin1949 »

BCborn

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2005, 11:59:58 AM »
Update:


Well my yurt is still up and standing and has seen some torrential rains and two storms with 100+ km/h winds. Here are some findings:


IF


You build your Yurt on a deck like I did, make sure you cut the deck off the same size, as the yurt (mine is 24'). Do not be tempted to leave section for leisure deck. Build a standalone deck later - reason being, your deck will leak water under your walls.


IF


You dont use wool felts, for whatever reason, use a spacing device (like small sticks or 1/4" x 1" x 4' lumber to space the layers between reflectics and the outside tarp or any inside vapor barrior - reason being that you WILL get condensation in your walls, and these spacers allow the water to run down the tarping, and escape through the bottom of the wall (as oppose to dripping on your floor or deck). This also helps control mold, mildew. It reduces your ability to fight wind, but you know what, its worth it. When you have subzero temps, like I'm getting right now, the temperature differential creates a lot of condensation, and id rather not having it rot the edges of my deck, create mold, and nasty black stains at the base of my walls, like I've seen in other Yurts on our land - Id rather put up with any draft than that. We use wood heat - which helps dry, a lot. I don't think Yurts and propane or gas heat go hand in hand - too moist.


More to come + pics

« Last Edit: October 31, 2005, 11:59:58 AM by BCborn »

twombo

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2005, 04:14:01 PM »
Hey Elvin!!


1.5 ac per person, eh.  Makes good sense. The property currently being investigated is about ten acres and  substantial portion is potentially grazeable. Numbers fit OK.


 Another point brought up  to me was plan for 1/2 ac. per septic system as needed.  I'm actually more inclined to a composting toilet or incinerator toilet, but he number seems a good one to bear in mind. The young folks might think otherwise, until  they see that alternatives can be not a great extra effort.


The property currently being investigated is about ten acres and  substantial portion is potentially grazeable. Probably more inclined to goats myself.  Good milk, good cheese, and more personality.


Probably more inclined to goats myself.  Good milk, good cheese, and more personality. I'm good with chickens though.


More Later


Mike


 

« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 04:14:01 PM by twombo »

ericwelsch

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2005, 11:56:28 PM »
hi my name is eric.  i'm living in a yurt in washington in a very rainy part of the woods.  

so far its nice.  Its 20' and home made.  lots of tarps.  A friend lived in it for years and then built  a house on his property and left it to die.  it colapsed last winter and was sitting in a heap for a while.  We salvaged the canvas walls and half of the latice work and got a few good rafters and the center ring.   I'm a carpenter and we get lots of salvaged goods.  so my yurt has eight feet of windows and a nice glass door too.  \

moisture is a real problem. i have been trying to dry this thing out.  it took me a while to build the platform and get this thing up.  so it got rained on a lot.  is there a good way of venting the center of the roof.  how can it be flashed to seal it up again.  if i put a layer of foil bubble insulation on the under side of the rafters will the moisture still condense like that on the roof still?  what about reflectix on the inside of the latice.  i would like to open up the end of the roof tarp and the center ring for air circulation and use the reflectix as a moisture barrier.  or should i put it under the roof on top of the rafters and behind the lattice under the wall covers?  i got a beautifull wood burning stove and a lot of pipe in the free bin also so i can pump in the heat.  i just dont want to trap moisture and get the nasty black mold growing anywhere.  that stuff will eat your mind.  


thanks very much

eric welsch

deming washington

« Last Edit: November 15, 2005, 11:56:28 PM by ericwelsch »

BCborn

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Re: PICS
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2005, 06:31:08 PM »
Heres Some Pics


Moisture Problems.



  1. Have reflectics outside khanas
  2. Get a big woodstove n burn lots of wood
  3. Use Tea Tree Oil


<


Build a Porch , you'll need one!~


BR>


The underside, nice n dry! Use sunlight!





Letting underside get south sun, but will reduce this area to about a 4x6 ft double pane window





My two woodstoves





It was -25 last night and over 80F in my Yurt!

« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 06:31:08 PM by BCborn »

ghurd

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Re: PICS
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2005, 07:06:37 PM »
With -25' and +80'F, is that double walled?

dang thats cold either way.


Looks just like what we used in PA. except we didn't look under it.

G-

« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 07:06:37 PM by ghurd »
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BCborn

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Re: Is that double walled?
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2005, 03:42:33 PM »
No it is not. There are some slight adaptations though.


Notice the missing bits of reflectics on the interior shot, at head height. Should have added them. (although, on the outside roof reflectics, I had them overhang, so that does compensate somewhat, and the space does help wall breathing.)


What you cant see is wood strips that were inserted at the joint of reflectics (walls), that slip past the deck edge slight, helping space the tarping out from the reflectics. It probably would have been better to run the reflectics right over the edge instead of having them terminate at floor top.


My walls bottom edge are not real tight, they are held to the underside of deck, just back a bit (to create a drip line, with strips of garbage plastic and screws. Lts of room for condensed water to escape at bottom of wall, yet not a clear path for wind to infiltrate.


I'm extremely paranoid about mildew and mold, as I have a class A Allergy (BAD!) for the stuff. Can't tolerate much of it at all before it gives me a headache, quickly. In this project I was ultra concerned, as all the wood I used was used lying around, getting a bit moldy etc. I built this entire Yurt for $800 Canadian, discluding the woodstoves. Including two woodstoves, a fridge, a propane stove/oven, lights + porch - I was still under 2 grand. Consequently I pretty much made it out of garbage other people had given up on. There are some real good design features and some flaws, as to be expected I guess. If you could see my big heater a little closer in the pic, you would see it is 3' back from the wall. The pipe leaves the stove in the rear (as oppose to vertically). The 3' section and all of the pipe is 7" diameter, and for two feet, it passes through a section of insulated pipe that is oversize, it's 10" intended for vertical use. I used various nuts and bolts to "space it out". It's well supported for its vertical "weight". All pipe joints are screwed for extra security, and on the outside a steal stake, made from heavy T shaped 1/8" stock was pounded about 4 ft into the ground. Overtop that, is a "box" metal section, with small slits in it. 4 (3 1/2") framing nails were pounded into the slits to stop the box metal from slipping down any further on the T-shaped stake. Both sections originally were used for an overhead garage door (hanging type), and were bought cheap at salvage for $10. I have 3 guidewires/ropes stabilizing a 12' (4x3'x7" pipe) vertical stack. The stack and horizontal section are connected with a T, not an elbow. This allows one end down, which is capped, and drill out (holes in the bottom). I can pull the cap to clean out creosote, and the holes allow moisture to drip out, which I collect (sometimes gallons in a day!) for treatin wood posts that go in the ground. Consequently it's an awesome setup because nearly all the heat stays in the Yurt, and while this creates a bit of a condensation problem (thus the "juice"), it's collected and doesn't present a problem. Once a day I burn her hot, and once a week I pop of the stopper on the bottom of the T and clean out creasote. Sure, I could just burn it off BUT I'd risk sparks landing on my cheap roof ($50 haha). It all works out pretty awesome I can get up to 12 hour burn or more, or awesome heat for up to 6-7 hrs. Rarely have to get up at night, and if so, only once, which I do anyway to answer to Mother Nature. :)


Last night it was 27 below (celcius) and 37 above, in my Yurt, ran it a bit hot again~ I'm not sure what 27 below is in Farenheit but it's cold enough LOL any colder and your snot instantly freezes, and thats halfway out the door haha

« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 03:42:33 PM by BCborn »

Don Cackleberrycreations

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Re: Mongolian Yurt Style Structures
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2005, 06:54:24 PM »
A suggestion for your outer tarp .

Farm silo covers come in various diameters 18-36 ft heavey guage coated canvas and designed for many years of rough service.

   Th round design and low walls /ceiling are echoed around the world for simple livable structures. This can be seen in the round low domed mud huts of africa, the small bark domes of pacific coast native american and of course the mongolians.

Unlike most modern structures which use enormous amounts of space these simple structures are compact. the cubic ft of such a building is often less than that of a standard bed room, so yes of course they are easy to keep heated. your body heat alone will raise the temp in a room. get a couple of big dogs and you wont need the  stove.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 06:54:24 PM by Don Cackleberrycreations »

Aelric

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Re: Is that double walled?
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2006, 12:28:36 PM »
Just curious did you make the latice or buy it?  If you made it, could you explain more.  I am very interested in this design it is very straightforward and seems to me to be a great structure.  I am planning on eventually building a house and have thought of building something similar as a temporary structure till i get the house finished.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 12:28:36 PM by Aelric »