The $50 & Up Underground House Book Anyone Delt with PSP.?

[Cyric30]

PSP stands for Post/Shoring/Polyethylene

Has anyone around here ever seen/heard of/messed with this type of building style.? ive got access to Lumber and im fairly set on an underground house

this seems a fairly simple building style to me...

[scottsAI]

Cyric30,

Why underground?

Couple around here, sold cheap, nobody would buy them. Had major trouble getting insurance for them.

Myself working on 16 inch thick, R45 walls, might have to run AC during the winter to cool house off:-) just kidding!

Have fun,

Scott.

[Cyric30]

Hello Scott

Why Underground,

1. : its what ive always wanted :p
   
2. : with an underground house you dont have to buy insulation or at least very little
   
3. : Privacy i would prefer to stay hidden
   
4. : wide temp. variations anywhere from -20 to 110 throught the year ground temp is almost constant
   
   

Insurance is not an issues it will never have any, why insure something they will do there best to screw you on if you actually do need it.

just save up $5000 buck build it, if it burns build it again dosent take long to pay $5000 in insurance premiums at say 250 a pop..

[spinningmagnets]

Cyric30, I don't know how dry your proposed home location is, but it may not take much winter rain or ground water to damage your summer-built efforts.

I have considered someday building a south-facing home thats half inside a hill. Over-excavate too deep and farther back than needed for just the house. Install a U-shaped gravel-filled channel that wraps around the back and sides of the house, and drains to the front. I have also seen cloth-covered perforated plastic pipe. Since pipe has holes, no glue needed in joints, easy install.

Wrap the gravel channel with some type of cloth to keep soil from filling voids over time. Rain can soak a hillside, if you give it somewhere to go, it will take the path of least resistance.

There are a lot of basement homes near me. Those near the creek have these (I think they are called a "French drain"?) but they are on flat ground, so they use 110VAC sump-pumps inside a pipe well to remove the collecting water.

Best of luck!

[Cyric30]

Hay Spinning

I live in the Ozarks in AR. the weather here can do darn near anything, i havent got a good South Facing Hill spot unfortunitly but ive got an East facing spot which ive read is second best. the view isent what im looking for really its secondary, Ive seen French Drains used and i thing it dosent matter if you think you need them or not put them in anyway (an ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure).....anyway ive still got alot of planning to do at this point any help is good help at this point

[Airstream]

Two reservations. Rattlesnakes/Copperheads and Radon. I just chased out a hatch of eastern runners from my parents basement, still don't know where they came from and hate to think about live-birth Copperheads being everywhere... Careful placement of entrances and keeping the drain beds screened off from becoming a den site remembered by snakes from now to kingdom-come. Also having Radon burbling into the living area can be like getting a chest X-Ray every day, research a correct venting scheme from day one of excavation so not to be caught short!

[Cyric30]

Hay Airstream

I hadent thought about Snakes thats something to think about, Now about Radon, that could be a problem But a Detector should take care of that shouldent it.??

[spinningmagnets]

I thought rattlesnakes taste like chicken?

[Airstream]

If you need a dosimeter or detector it is too late ~ I'm no expert but I know there are online area geology studies that may show more design details would be required. It is usually at/near bedrock where it can get concentrated in homes, carving out a niche in cliff bedrock is what flagged it fir me.

[Cyric30]

Ya ive heard that to...goes back to the Matrix movie if we werent ment to eat it, it tastes like chicken :p

[Cyric30]

This is something that i'll need to look into some more....But how does Radon react.? is it a gas that hugs the floor or does it rise.? and how does one find out how to properly vent a home for it.?

[scottsAI]

Cyric30,

No justification for a dream!

Was mine hearts desire until I learned more about them.

Moisture/humidity is a problem.

Radon

More insulation is needed than you may realize.

Structural supports become costly when you calculate the TONs of material it must support.

Etc.

All problems have a solutions, yet the lower cost was not there and you cant sell your work later.

The $5k will not get you very far around MI, even using mostly local materials, maybe the heat pump.

Have fun,

Scott.

[Airstream]

Radon is the heaviest known gas at nine times denser than air but since it is almost inert it remains a single molecule and can penetrate things similarly to how hydrogen makes some solids look porous.

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/citguide.html

[dnix71]

In Florida they are called split-level houses. The basement is only half-so because the water table is so high. Your basement doubles as an indoor swimmimg pool in the summer if it rains a lot. There is a window on one side and earth on the other.

They were built as a cheap way to get extra floor space on small lots. Two story houses can easily become one story during a hurricane.

[thirteen]

I've seen a couple of them. Check for earthquakes in your ground area. some soils are prone to moving. They make pond liners and that will help on the top. The water table may be a big problem. For there are areas that have undeground springs that flow unseen under the surface. I would suggest digging the area first then watch for water you might have a dry area late summer but during the early spring things may change. If you have time go and seek weather records for your area that might make a difference on where and when you build.Just some ideas.

[Cyric30]

You sayed youve seen some could you give me some more info.? what was your impressions..

Hum...the grounds high enough no prob. But the underground spring could be a problem i hope to dig the footing out in the spring. maybe that will give me an idea on ground water lvls. im close enough to feel a earthquake But ive never been through one to know what it effect would be..no one has as a matter of fact...the ground is primarily red clay 70 % sand 30% at most the rock around is limestone.

[thirteen]

There was one in Ronan, Montana and one in Polbridge, Mt there have also been places down in the desert areas that have had underground homes built. The guy built it into the mountain and if you didn't know it was there you could only see the road going up to the rocks then stop. I was driving cement truck at the time . He made it with some heavey I beams and all of the walls and floor inside were concret. He put alot of dranage around it and lined the top with a rubber mat of some type to stop any water from getting into the house. He also built a side room with large rocks and it was laced with piping. His idea was during the summer he had solar heated air and ran the air thru the rocks thus heating the rocks and during the winter he ran air thru the rocks to provide heat. He also ran his wood stove exhaust thru the rocks. I don't know if it worked good or not. He also had heavey sutters that would cover his windows and door when he was gone. He said he could leave and never needed to heat things even in the worst of winters because the inside never froze. He also was working with a deck of only 48 cards. At one time I beleive that Mother Earth News (the magazine) had some articles on underground houses. You might contact them. Or look in the net Just some ideas.  

[bsafe]

    I  am very interested in this type of construction. Mr. Oehler has a new book out for constructing a bermed green house. I am waiting for my turn at the library.

    I found these sites useful for stoking my enthusiasm as they are "long on adjetives and short on numbers" http://countryplans.com/smf/indexphp?topic151.0 , www.malcolmwells.com/resources and http://peaceandcarrots.homestead.com/pictures.html   . I am interested in any practical, non theoretical knowledge about this constructions method as well.

[bgarrett]

I talked to Mike Ohler and bought his book.

There are some small bits of good onformation but overall, PSP is a bunch of crap.

look how tiny his place was!

  Ohler admits that he only stayed there in the summer, he spends winters in hotels.

I am in north central Arkansas and want to build underground but not with Ohlers ideas.

I want a 50X100 steel frame building sealed with ferrocement, then covered with dirt.

[TomW]

bgarrett;

I wasn't going to chime in here as I had nothing good to say about the method / idea but. I bet I still have my copy lying about someplace here.

In like 1979 or thereabouts I helped a buddy build one pretty much exactly by that book including the uphill patio bit. It failed miserable as a dwelling. Leaked water and / or was damp [spelled WET] all the time. Posts rotted and grew mold almost immediately. Not practical for a home but maybe a wine cellar?

You can buy shipping containers for under $2500 here. 140 square foot each or more depending on size. Bury it with the front exposed and glassed in and entomb in concrete your set with a structure for the foreseeable future.

I thought the ideas in the book were great when we started but that changed when we saw it in use awhile.

It was cheap cash wise but considerable labor and gathering involved.

You're mileage may vary as they say.

Tom

[Cyric30]

Thank you for the info

around here most folks done think i play with a full deck eather but anyone whos not the stay with the flock mentality isent all there So ...i guess im not all here :p

The real question is if im not all here? where did i leave the rest of me.? :p

[Cyric30]

Hay there

Ive got a set of countryplans and they are great, very simple and thought out designs But im trying to go with as cheap a building style as possible But somthing that will last a good long time....the other 2 links i'll have to look at more in depth But they look very cool to

[Tritium]

I have this book. Anyone considering underground should look at it.

http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=19116162

This may be a new one or a reprint by the same author.

http://www.amazon.com/Passive-Solar-Primer-Sustainable-Architecture/dp/0764330705

Thurmond

[PatM]

My earth shelter walls are reinforced concrete block waterproofed with Thoroseal stucco followed with plastic roof cement and 6 mil poly applied while the roof cement was still wet. Still dry 21 years later. Be sure to build above the seasonal water table (ask septic co.} even if you have to berm like I did. Also add perimeter french drain. The earth covers 3/4 of wall area, no dirt on roof, stays 72 degrees here in FL with windows OPEN! No insulation for floor or walls. No power needed for heating or cooling. $10,000 in 1987 dollars for materials. Over 3,000 hours personal labor, includes tractor work, logging, sawmill work, & septic.

Go to motherearthnews.com and type "earth shelter" in the search box at the top of the page.My home is based on Rob Roy's first design. Naysayers simply have not seen a successfull design, they go by false assumptions.

[bsafe]

Wow,do you have any photos from the construction process? If you were to build today, what would you do diferently? What advice/resources do you recomend for someone considering this type of construction? Thank you, Bsafe.

[PatM]

Hi Bsafe, sorry for the late response, I should have checked back. I appreciate your input. Yes, I have orig. pix., but don't yet know how to upload them. There is little I would do differently today intentionally, but code changes could add to the cost. For example, engineer approved plans are required here now. I drew my own from book examples and the bldg. dept. approved them. They also allowed me to build with fresh green beams, rafters, and planks that I cut myself on a Belsaw. They now even require a heat source in all rooms even though it's unneeded in a sun belt earth shelter. I would prefer to build where there are either no codes or limited codes, but I met the Southern Building Code in 1985.

The best book I have found for the owner/builder is Rob Roy's newly updated "Earth Sheltered Houses" book. You can buy it at his site, cordwoodmasonry.com. It is loaded with most of the resources that I used. earth-house.com lists many of these resources and more.

All in all, It has far exceeded my expectations for low cost, comfort, safety, quiet, upkeep, and energy costs. My favorite quote is from John B. Langley, A.I.A., "All the insulation in the world can neither add heat to nor remove heat from any structure, sun belt earth sheltering can do both."

I expect to post more comments on the forums at motherearthnews.com. I toured both of their earth shelters and was convinced to build my own.

Otherpower fans will find a wealth of alternative energy articles dating to 1970 by searching their archives.