Author Topic: Uhn Question about Hydro  (Read 2241 times)

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divemaster1963

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Uhn Question about Hydro
« on: January 20, 2010, 07:59:28 PM »
I am at a 1st grade level when it comes to hydro thought if anyone might can shed some light. I have a creek that runs at the back of my nieghbors property that has a flow of 5 mph constant and max of 30mph during heavy rains and floods. I tested this using a hand held police radar gun. the creek is never dry min depth of 12 inches max depth at flood 10 feet. If I was to use a floating paddle wheel with a 6 ft dia. using gearing what ratio would i need to use a 190 vdc 15 amp 1250 rpm alt.

the run of wiring is apx 400 ft. to might shop across the back at the property line.to a charge controller. Yes he has stated in wrighting that I may use a 20 ft easment along the property line and attach to shore as long as I bury the line 16in down.what gauge wire would best make this run to maintain capacity. I have access to high voltage wiring from a local contractor who is replacing 15miles of transmission lines.


This is a secondary project that is a year from starting but wanted to get some numbers to get a  idea from.


Thanks


Divemaster1963  

« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 07:59:28 PM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: Uhn Question about Hydro
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 04:50:55 AM »
Typo?  Is the motor maybe a 180 or 90V?


What's the output voltage?

G-

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 04:50:55 AM by ghurd »
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divemaster1963

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Re: Uhn Question about Hydro
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 04:53:43 PM »
whoops.


sorry about that It's

190 volts dc

15 amps

1750 rpm


Treadmill motor


By the way did you get the e-mail I sent you.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 04:53:43 PM by divemaster1963 »

FoolAmI

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Re: Uhn Question about Hydro
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 08:33:16 PM »
Divemaster,     Wow,    ok as a full time water wheel builder ( www.waterwheelplace.com )I sometimes get envolved in the gearing and generator setups ( currently building 2 now )so I see a lot of variables (primarly the water speed and depth) which make this kinda tough so let's say that your water speed is 7.3 fps (5 mph).      Generaly a undershot wheel runs @ about 65% of the water's speed when under light load so the water will move the wheel's rim @ about 4.7fps.     This means a 6' diameter wheel (6 x 3.14 = 19 ft circumference)will turn @ 14.8rpm when under light load.      As you probably know you need to overspeed a pm motor about 7% to get the rated voltage out when using it as a generator so we want to turn the motor/generator @ 1340 rpm using a water wheel rotating @ 14.8 rpm to get 190v out of it.     So...    You are looking for about a 90 to 1 ratio.      


By these same calculations we can see that if the stream is running @ 30 mph (flood stage) the wheel will be turning @ 89 rpm (under light load) which is pretty darn fast,    and probably unsafe.      I'm not really sure it would get spinning that fast due to the water turbulance from the blades lowering into and lifting out of the water but worth thinking about.


Ok,    how wide to make the wheel.     190v x 15amps = 2850 watts of energy fed to the generator to produce 2850 watts of electricity (assuming 100% generator efficency)(I'm not sure hoe efficient pm motor/generators are)       Before feeding the 2850 watts to the generator you must gear things up 90 to 1 which will rob about 15% to 20% of the water wheel's energy so the water wheel needs to produce about 3420 watts of energy @ the shaft to get the generator/motor up to 190v.      You're going to need a very wide wheel to drive that generator, 10' wide at least using an undershot wheel.    There are several reasons for this, first off while a well made overshot wheel can be 80% efficient @ converting the water's energy onto power an undershot wheel is only 10%-20% efficient.      In addition to this an undershot wheel's head can be calculated as 1.5 times the depth the paddle goes into the water so you only have 15" of head to make the power if the paddle dips 10" into the water.


A better option may be to use a smaller generator or plan on using a lower voltage with that generator/motor.       Your generator/motor will probably hit 90v @ about 600 rpm which would he high enough to minimize voltage drop over the 400' to your shop.      If you're willing to put in the fairly large amount of civil engeneering required you could use a Poncelet undershot wheel (65% eff.) of an overshot wheel (80% eff.)        Either way the process will be fun.

Below is a picture of an adjustable gearing setup currently set @ 114 to 1.              

« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:33:16 PM by FoolAmI »

divemaster1963

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Re: Uhn Question about Hydro
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 06:08:21 PM »
Sorry the picture did not show up. Thankyou thankyou for that info. I going to thnk awhile about this one. I plan on using it to keep a large bank of 10 L16 trogens happy. so I can use my arc welder will resotring 2 early 70's motorcyles that I got for Free. More hobbies than time. but it keeps me around the house and not running around my wife says.


Thanks again

I'll check you photo gallery for the picks.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 06:08:21 PM by divemaster1963 »

willib

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Re: Uhn Question about Hydro
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 09:27:15 PM »
Here is the pic.





Your killing me here!


Have you got any more photos of the wheel itself ?

Is it an overflow or underflow?

If your flow is constant or not varying by much , a really nice PM alternator could be put on there.

Matched to the power of the wheel's output no less.

I must admit that i love the idea of waterwheels.i dont know why.but i do.

i saw one a few years ago in North Carolina not producing any power whatsoever, what a waste..

« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 09:27:15 PM by willib »
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