Author Topic: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel  (Read 2865 times)

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FishbonzWV

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Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« on: July 12, 2004, 03:37:31 PM »
I've been working on getting running water for the remote camp. Just got a 1000 gal plastic tank and already had the 250 gal. Going to collect water from the 32'x 20' barn roof...figured about 1" of rain will give me about 350 to 400 gal in the tanks. Since we only use the camp sporadically I thought I would put the water to use as a power generator.


   


Theory

When the level in large tank (tank 1)exceeds the height of the small tank (tank 2)it fills tank 2 which will be the camp supply.


Tank 1 will have a ball valve after the Tee that feeds tank 2.

The ball valve will have a Vee shaped handle and be spring loaded to the closed position.

On the other side will be a counter balanced bucket. When the tank overflows it will be piped into the bucket opening the ball valve. The bucket will have to have drip holes in it to let the ball valve close. To prevent the bucket from emptying before the tank does a saddle valve on the line to the pelton wheel will feed the bucket until the tank is dry.


Whadoyathink ?  


FishbonzWV

« Last Edit: July 12, 2004, 03:37:31 PM by (unknown) »
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pexring

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Re: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2004, 04:16:10 PM »
I know I don't comprehend everything, but I'll throw out my two cents anyway. Maybe I don't understand because you are overcomplicating it.


If you want tank 2 filled, simply connect a line from tank 1 to tank 2.  Keep your vent higher than tank one and tank one will always remain at the same level as tank one.  


Then when you get overflow from tank 1, just run it directly to the pelton wheel without the need for the valves and such.  Pelton wheels also need a lot of pressure to work (if I understand them right), and getting pressure from the top of the tank might not be enough to do it, unless it falls directly out of the tank onto the wheel.  I'm also assuming your bucket with holes is outside of tank 1?


Sorry for not quite understanding your thinking.


Mark

« Last Edit: July 12, 2004, 04:16:10 PM by pexring »

FishbonzWV

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Re: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2004, 05:21:28 PM »
Pexring

Tank 1 is going to act like a giant toilet bowl. The bucket is the flush handle.

The pelton wheel will be about 50' over the hill...almost straight over. I want all the water to drain at one time. I've got a bunch of 48vdc pm motors. Getting about 4A @540 RPM. Been playing around with them and going to try building a pelton wheel.


Bonz

« Last Edit: July 12, 2004, 05:21:28 PM by FishbonzWV »
"Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion"
H.F.Fisher 1925-2007

pexring

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Re: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2004, 06:31:54 PM »
That explains it better.  So you want the 1000 gallon tank to completely drain without draining the 250 gallon tank.  I'd still put in that cross-over tube, but put a check-valve in it so the water from the 250 gallon tank can't drain back.  


Next is to figure out if you will get enough pressure from the tank to operate the pelton wheel at the rpm's you need while under a load.  All I know is the bigger the line the better.


Mark

« Last Edit: July 12, 2004, 06:31:54 PM by pexring »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2004, 11:45:05 PM »
Here's how to get rid of the moving parts related to the 1000 galon tank:


Install a fat pipe through the side of the tank near the top.  On the inside bend it down smoothly (or use a nice pipe elbow) and run it down to within its diameter of the bottome of the tank.  (Brace it to the side of the tank near the bottom because there will be some forces on it.)  On the outside run it down the hill to the Pelton wheel.


This creates an intermittent siphon:

 - The tank fills up to the level of the through-side run.

 - The water starts flowing through the pipe - pushing the air ahead of it and filling the whole run with a slug of water.

 - The water flows rapidly down the pipe driving the wheel until the level gets down to the opening near the bottom.  ("The flush cycle.")

 - Air enters the pipe, "breaking the siphon" and letting the last of the water in the pipe run out through the wheel.


This repeats as long as water is being added slower than it runs out during the "flush" cycle.  (If it's being added faster, the flush runs continuously and any excess oveflows the tank.)


A small line from the bottom of the tank, through a valve, to a T in the line to the turbine will let you drain the tank if necessary.  The syphon will tend to suck out sediment, at least to below the siphon inlet.


Floating crud won't be automatically cleaned out.  But a gate valve in the main line will let you block the "flush" and force the tank to overflow, flushing out the floaters.  You can automate that by using a 90-degree lever-arm gate valve and hanging a bucket from it under the overflow.  Turn it off when you leave and the next heavy rain will fill the bucket and open the valve AFTER the floaters are washed out - then a small hole in the bucket will let it drain to prevent rust.  (Position the valve so closed is 10:30, open is 7:30 and it will open fully when the bucket gets full enough to yank it.)


I assume you're tapping the 1000 galon tank to fill the 250 in order to avoid sediment and the like.  You can do that by drilling a small hole in the side of the flush pipe near the bottom and tapping the 1000 galon tank to feed the 250 at a point below that small hole and above the open bottom of the pipe.


The small hole will admit air when the level gets down to it, stopping the flush and keeping floating stuff out of your feed to the 250 gal tank.  Now the level will cycle between the hole and the top of the outlet pipe, but most of the rapid flow of the flush cycle will still come from the bottom, sucking the sediment off the bottom and keeping it below the level of the fresh water outlet.


Run the connection between the tanks first through a cut-off valve, then an anti-siphon valve at an elevation a bit above the small hole (though in this case outside both tanks), then through a check valve, and finally to a T in the line at the bottom of the 250 galon tank.  The antisiphon valve will keep the 250 galon tank from drawing water in the 1000 galon tank down low enough to let floaters into the 250.  The check valve will keep the 250 from backfeeding the 1000 as/after it flushes.


Initially fill the 1000 galon tank to above the little hole before you first open the cut-off valve and you'll never have flotsam OR jetasm in the 250 galon tank (unless you go without rain for so long that the water evaporates down to the level of the line to the 250 galon tank).


I figured out a sanitization procedure - but it takes a couple thousand gallons of clean water and a galon of bleach to do it, and again after the system gets contaminated again.  Instead I'd put a suitable filter between the two tanks so I'd only need to sanitize the drinking water side of the system once (with a quart of bleach and about 500 galons of water) and it would STAY sanitized.  A hose bib right next to the filter can provide a connection for feeding in sanitizing and rinsing solutions.


Don't forget to put a couple elbows in the vent tube to bend it over so rain and dirt doesn't fall into the 250 gallon tank, and a reducer (down to 1/4 inch or less) and/or a screen in the opening to keep the wildlife out.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2004, 11:45:05 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

FishbonzWV

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Re: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2004, 04:12:09 AM »
Pexring

The crossover is out of the bottom T-1 and into the top T-2. Water seeks it's own level so when water level of T-1 is higher than T-2 it fills T-2. The vent tube is not really a vent but a water column because T-2 will have to be sealed to prevent water leakage when T-1's water level is higher than T-2. When using water from T-2 without the vent it would have a vaccum. It won't need a check valve.


Bonz

« Last Edit: July 13, 2004, 04:12:09 AM by FishbonzWV »
"Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion"
H.F.Fisher 1925-2007

Victor

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Re: Water Supply for Pelton Wheel
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2004, 07:58:51 AM »
The total potential energy of 1000 gallons of water with a 50' fall is only about 150 watt hours! Multiplied times your efficiency leaves almost nothing. This makes a pedal power generator look good for the amount of work you will put into it to get it to work. However if your just having fun, have at it.


Victor

« Last Edit: July 13, 2004, 07:58:51 AM by Victor »