Author Topic: How Do I Build a Generator for a Waterfall (Read 13988 times)

H20gal · « **on:** May 15, 2005, 11:13:17 PM »

I have no idea where to start. Is there a manual or any books that you recommend I read? How about a kit to get started with?

Vernon · « **Reply #1 on:** May 15, 2005, 05:47:34 PM »

You must have a nice back yard !

It is necessary to apply a little physics to the situation. What is the volume of flow ? Can you get a large tub, catch most of the flow and see how long it takes to fill the tub ? How far does the water fall ?

Say you have a tub that weighs 10 pounds empty and, after 10 seconds of filling it weighs 60 pounds (50 pounds of H2O). Lets also say that you measure the height of the falls and discover that it is 20 feet tall. Calculate that 5 pounds fall through 20 feet and you have 100 foot pounds per second. Since 550 ft lb per sec is 1 HP this hypothetical waterfall offers a potential .1818 HP. 1 HP is 746 watts so our example should yield 135.6 watts. This is theoretical and I would not expect to recover more than 50 to 60% considering turbine and generator losses. I would think that if your situation would produce 200 watts or better it would be worth doing. Hydro is wonderful stuff, it goes all the time regardless of wind or sun ! 200W of Hydro is probably worth as much as 1KW of sun or wind.

pyrocasto · « **Reply #2 on:** May 15, 2005, 08:47:29 PM »

You wouldnt even need 200 for it to be worth doing. I've only got 135 watts of solar, and it was worth doing. Especially since hydro is 24/7.

Vernon is right though, in that we need a little more information.

Amount of flow relates to how much money you're gonna have to spend. If you have plenty all the time, then you dont even need batteries or a charge controller. :-)

H20gal · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2005, 04:13:27 AM »

Ok. Great starting point. I am going to get out there today and do the measurements and calculations. I will post back what I find out!

H20gal · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2005, 08:14:00 PM »

OK. Here is some info:

The total drop is about 30 ft.

To get the flow, I measured a part of the stream that is about 9'X 9'X 14cm deep.

I dropped a ball in the stream and it took about 9.3 seconds to go the 9'.

I then divided 37.2 cu. ft. by 9.3 sec.

This gave me about 4 cu.ft./sec.

cu. ft./sec X 8 gal/cu.ft = 32 gal/sec. 32X8lb/gal = 256 lb/sec.
lb/sec X 30 ft. = 7680 ft-lb/sec. 7680 X 1 HP-sec/550 ft-lb = 14 HP
HP X 746 watt/HP = 10,417 watts!!

At 50% efficiency that's 5,200 watts.

But that is using the entire stream.

So, what if I put in a 6 inch diameter pipe at the top of the falls, and run the pipe down the length of the falls (30 foot drop)?

Using the same calculation setup as above, I get a total wattage of 536 through the 6 inch pipe. a 55% efficiency gives 294 watts.

That sounds pretty good, according to the previous posts.

Does that sound right?

If it does, what do I do next?

(I am going to attempt to post photos of the waterfall in a separate post.)

H20gal · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2005, 08:30:25 PM »

This first picture is the upper part of the waterfall.

This second picture is the lower part of the waterfall.

I am thinking about putting a 6" diameter pipe in the top part of the upper falls. How does that sound?

ghurd · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2005, 09:17:46 PM »

WOW!

What a beautiful place!

A 6" pipe sounds good to me. Wow.

A 30' head. Again, wow.

Something not often mentioned here,

that pipe should have some serious anchoring the whole way.

You don't want the middle of the pipe changing zip codes.

There is a lot of potential there.

Curious. Where is that?

Did I say Wow yet?

G-

pyrocasto · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2005, 09:28:11 PM »

Wow again. That is extremely beautiful!

You have some potential I think. ;-)

H20gal · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2005, 04:23:16 AM »

Thanks.

I will be more wow'ed if I can turn some of it into $$$ and reduce my $185/month electric bill. I live in CT - land of inflated costs and taxes.

But now I need more help. What do I do next? I have no idea what to look for in terms of a generator.... and what else I need. I am totally new to this whole thing. Can I just buy something to hook the pipe to? Also, I am thinking some sort of flexible hose to use for the 6" pipe. Suggestions?

Thanks.

H20gal · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2005, 04:25:55 AM »

Chris,

Thanks for the comments.

Now what do I do? Any ideas where to look online for a generator? Can I just buy one? Can I make one? I am stuck as to where to start.

a.

ghurd · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2005, 08:39:53 AM »

You can buy them.

They are 'pricy' in my opion.

There are a few different styles.

Search 'hydro power gennerator.' Add 'Pelton' or 'turgo' later.

DanG · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2005, 10:15:29 AM »

It's a gourgeous gorge for sure - I think you can expect ice though, can't make water impoundment pond deep enough w/o heavy equipment and scarring the area badly. I saw the containment pond for Skagway Alaska's new hydro plant (used for the town) and saw they ran the pipe above ground, with a insulation sleeve, maybe running water in the pipe will resist freezing enough to work 4-seasons for them but the pond is very deep and dug out at the foot of a glacier debris field. I've got a picture of those somewhere, will have to dig it out of storage. So maybe you've got a 3-season hydro-electric source?

Six-inches of pipe/fittings/water is alot of weight and $$$, looks like that entire stream could flow through it and then some. You could probably install a continuous section of 2"ID plastic gas-line and small impeller/generator for less then the costs of the 6" pipe alone. By the pictures the pipe run will be 200+ feet; I would be tempted to get one smaller unit working and duplicate it for more capacity when you've got the bugs out. And the pipe won't be perfectly straight laying on the ground, whats your estimate of total length to get maximum drop and be able to discharge water w/o errosion?

Designing the catch-basin improvements to survive freeze heave so you're not up top every spring battling last winters damage should be fun, well, funner then chipping ice all winter : )

DanG · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2005, 10:31:47 AM »

Something a little more basic, kitty-litter bucket water wheel perhaps?

pyrocasto · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2005, 12:45:58 PM »

You do have a number of options for a generator. Yes, you can build your own or buy one, either way you like it. It depends alot on how much time you want to put into it as well. Got a price range or something to work with?

Vernon · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:24:35 AM »

Awesome !!!!

You should never have to pay an electric bill again !!

The pressure for 30 feet of head is less than 15PSI (at the bottom of the "hill") so 6" pvc sewer pipe should work. The link below to a Harris turbine called a "stream engine" discusses an off the shelf product that would work. The turgo wheel is optimum for your head. Three units and a suitable battery - inverter system should run any household.

http://www.energyoutfitters.com/default.htm?http://www.energyoutfitters.com/products/micro_hydro/har
ris.shtm

It might be worth finding a turgo system that will produce 3 - 5KW and drive a 60 HZ

alternator head (1800 or 3600). I didn't find any on the search I did, but it should be possible....

Your yard is awesome !!

Vernon · « **Reply #15 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:55:04 AM »

I was just thinking that, if cost is a consideration, you might try "backspinning" a V8 (eg small block Chevy) water pump ! It already has a pulley, mounting bolt holes and the rest and is "junkyard cheap" ! I am pretty sure that V8 pumps have curved impellers and might work well !

ghurd · « **Reply #16 on:** May 18, 2005, 03:29:06 AM »

There was a very recent post regarding a Subaru transmission.

Seemed quite complicated at the time,

but that was for much smaller potential at the time.

I think there was more I can't find.

But here it is.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/4/21/32520/2658

boarder girl · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2005, 10:37:44 AM »

There is a book available thru Mother Earth News called Microhydor: Clean Power From Water by Scott Davis ($19.50). Call 1-800-888-9098 the book number is #1946. The book covers how to access your site, the different turbine options as well as examples for several actual microhydro projects with all the background. Good luck!

BeenzMeenzWind · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2005, 03:16:27 PM »

I'll just echo the 'Wow'

If that were my back yard I wouldn't need much electricity. Enough to keep the beer cold while I sat there and watched the waterfall all day. lol

jkeiling · « **Reply #19 on:** May 25, 2005, 08:40:21 PM »

Yep....that certainly looks extremely promising! I only wish I had that on my property...awesome! You most definitely have very serious potential there. You could go the dam/penstock/turbine route and that would almost certainly be more efficient. Just a thought that noone else has mentioned on here. You have such a rare and beautiful mix of natural beauty there, and I believe more than enough potential to afford you to be a bit wasteful. Why not a small dam with a overshot waterwheel shafted to a genset housed in an small native stone building? Great place to store things, likely more than enough power to meet your needs, all the while preserving/enhancing the natural beauty of your landscape.

jkeiling · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2005, 08:52:09 PM »

Does this stream run this full at dry periods of the year? Was this taken in the Spring? At any rate it is likely still far more than adequate. How far is this from your home? Are you prepared to make an initial investment in time and money? Are you and your husband capable of doing some of this work? Alot of the fesability of this will depend on your lifestyle. It's sorta like having to cut firewood and stoke a stove versus having a gas furnace, but if it was me I wouldn't hesitate one second. This could be an extremely rewarding project for you and your family, and not just from a financial perspective. If your serious all the info is right here on the net. Do some research then GO FOR IT!

Nando · « **Reply #21 on:** May 28, 2005, 12:24:48 PM »

H20GAL:

I sent you a message, last night, it seems that the site either lost it or stayed in the Ciber space and it is lost.

Where are you located ?.

The site does not have capabilities to send a copy to my own email address, to bad, it had all the calculations for the site.

9 meters head is best for a "Banki"

I calculated 110 liter/sec that gives 9*110*9.81= about Gross 9.7 KW, so with 60 % efficiency you may get 5.8 KW.

Does the creek have fish ?.If so just 50 % water may be the maximum you may take.

A Turgo Turbine is a possibility if you built it to your diameter required to your site.

The Turgo Turbine would be a small diameter for a 4 pole generator that will require a full flow nozzle ( a ring nozzle) for 110 l/s.

The diameter would be 0.1 meter= 10 cms= 4 inches with some large size spoons.

Pelton is out.

Contact me directly if you desire more information

Regards and good luck

Nando

nando37-at-comcast-dot-net

Jedon · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2005, 07:38:24 PM »

This looks really close to my situation but it won't freeze where I'm at (CA).

Any progress?

Here is a picture of mine (that's not me BTW)

The creek is year round and stays about that size.

I am building a house on the property about 1200ft away and there is no power up there so I'll be off the grid. I am planning a solar/generator/batteries etc system but thought maybe hydro might be a good addition to the system.

Say a budget of $4K? (just for the hydro and transmission, not the inverters, batteries etc.

pyrocasto · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2005, 08:18:40 PM »

I'd say you could get some hydro power no problem! ;-)

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Author Topic: How Do I Build a Generator for a Waterfall (Read 13988 times)