Author Topic: First Micro Hydro Project  (Read 12359 times)

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aidanhydro

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First Micro Hydro Project
« on: June 12, 2006, 12:22:51 PM »
Hi all,


I have posted up photos detailing my first hydro project. I would appreciate any comments and advice.


Link: http://www.aidanmaguire.com/hydromain.htm


Thanks,


Aidan



Editor thinks it is very clumsy to have to go there to read it then back here to discuss it. Why not post it here so in the future when your page moves or changes the info is still available in one location, if you see what I mean. Looks like a pretty nice project with a lot of large graphics stuff on the page.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 12:22:51 PM by (unknown) »

kenneth keen

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2006, 06:02:24 AM »
Excellent project you are working on Aidan. Very well documented so far and I am very excited to see how well you get on. The editor has a point but the clumsiness is not such a problem as finishing and showing the rest of us that it can be done! I think some comments on your part regarding the estimated power output would be interesting and you can also get feedback from others, another viewpoint is always useful. I would particularly like to hear more of your location, is it Scotland?

Don't you stop!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 06:02:24 AM by kenneth keen »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2006, 06:31:43 AM »
Hi Kenneth,


Thanks for your response. I will post a proper report here when my project is completed - mid august hopefully. In the meantime my webpages will be regularly updated. The location is in fact Connemara on the west coast of Ireland. We have a river and a stream on the land, plus plenty of wind! I thought it would be wise to harness some of this energy- hence this project (a start of many i hope...).


Although I have been researching on this forum for weeks now - i still have a lot to learn. I would appriciate any advice on:


*Charge Controllers

*Batteries

*Inverters


I have used Hugh Piggott's plans for the alternator - 5 phase, 12volt system. I really do not know what to expect in terms of power output ( i was hoping to connect a 2kW inverter to the batteries to comfortably run a fridge, lights, sound system). This is a big learning curve for me! Any advice would be much appreciated. In the meantime here is a photo of the view from our cottage. I will post more photos of the hydro project in the coming hours.


   

« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 06:31:43 AM by aidanhydro »

kenneth keen

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2006, 06:54:09 AM »
Aidan, you are really on the ball! Beautiful picture from your cottage! I am impressed to see you doing such clean technical work while not fully informed of all the difficulties which lie ahead. I have had the possibility of doing the same as you in a location in France and because of first wanting to get complete information before starting on something I have ended up doing almost nothing. This year I finally got started on building a 50cm wide provisional plastic wheel to catch the water but I would prefer to just have a mechanical system rather than electrical. The weakest and most expensive and first part to "wear out" in your system will be the batteries. Battery technology has still not reached any state of efficiency worth talking about and in my opinion it is always better to "use the energy immediately at source" rather than trying to trap it for use later. In Ireland you will get lots of rain in winter and so it is then that you could use power for lighting and small electrical items, in the summer the demand should be lower and that is when your flow will be lowest.

Everyone has his own way of working but the more you present here the more you will get information of what other possibilities are out there (just trying to encourage you to let us have more info!).

My own river can be seen at http://www.whotoo.com/


so if you are successful and would be interested in "doing it all over again" you would be welcome down to France to help out someone who has lots of potential but it stuck at the starting post!


Kenneth

« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 06:54:09 AM by kenneth keen »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2006, 07:04:43 AM »



Here is a photo of my turbines made from plastic piping and (thin) steel oven pizza dishes. I am currently working on replacing the end plates with thick plastic disks  - i am hoping to cut butcher size cutting boards using a jigsaw - i have to get the boards first though. I thought of moulding epoxy resin to size - but that is an expensive option. Can any of you suggest any other ideas for source of plastic disks (30cm/12" diameter)?

« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 07:04:43 AM by aidanhydro »

TomW

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Plastic disks
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2006, 07:23:13 AM »
Aidan;




Can any of you suggest any other ideas for source of plastic disks (30cm/12" diameter)?


Well, I don't know about there but here you can get plastic pail [bucket] lids and buckets. Be about a foot across. Not real heavy but if used in the same way as the pizza pans you could double them up. Also 50 gallon and 15 gallon plastic barrels are very common here. None of these would likely work "as is" you would need to cut your own disks out somehow. The plastic barrels are relatively thick and in that type use would probably last a long time. I find the black plastics seem to hold up best in sunlight and outside.


Just a couple ideas on where to salvage up some plastic. Neat idea on the pizza pans, too. Great looking bit of kit!


Stop on by IRC [link in my signature] lots of scroungers pass thru there and a some of them have great ideas on ways to do stuff for cheap.

Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 07:23:13 AM by TomW »

Vtbsr

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2006, 03:51:24 PM »
Hello aidanahydro, Can you get 1/4 in steel plate for the end disks? Take 4 1nch.steel pipe to cut 4 blades from each section. Then weld it up. The runner has to be very robust or this might be a pipe dream. Have you looked at the VITA booklet to construct?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 03:51:24 PM by Vtbsr »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2006, 05:43:20 PM »
I do have the option of building the turbines from steel but aim to build them using plastic for flexibility and rust reasons - I will be using a minimum of ½ inch poly plastic as end plates (I have found 24" x 18" x ½ poly butcher cutting boards on the web). I think it would make a lot more sense using plastic turbines with such exposure to water. What is the VITA booklet?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 05:43:20 PM by aidanhydro »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2006, 05:47:18 PM »
By the way, are those photos too big (file download size) - i'll make them smaller physically next time...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 05:47:18 PM by aidanhydro »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2006, 07:51:10 AM »
Do i have to have a battery bank for a hydro system? Could i use a voltage regulator then output straight into an inverter?  
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 07:51:10 AM by aidanhydro »

Vtbsr

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2006, 08:52:13 AM »
If you have the battery bank you charge 24 hrs a day, and have the amp hrs for high loads for when you need them. I would go with 48 v system to save on wire size(house to turbine). The Trace sw inverters have diverision load relays. At night or when when you dont have a load, as the battery hits a preset level the relay will divert. You could run power to a 120 gal elect water heater with  lower watt heating element for a diversion load and get all your hot water. You want the output to balance the diverision load. It is like a mini grid. The VITA book was a gov publication that had a lot of info. I cant find any links on the web to find it now. There is info on the nozzel on this board that you will have to build also. You dont have to worry about rust with the metal. If a stick runs through you dont want it to blow up . The steel hubs can be bolted to a strong flange that mounts on your shaft. Slinger hubs will help keep the water from running all over the shaft down to the alternator.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 08:52:13 AM by Vtbsr »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2006, 06:57:27 AM »
For simplicity - let just say I have a fully charged standalone battery with no turbines connected. If the 100amp/hour gel battery is connected to a 2kW (220 volt) inverter and there is a 1kW load connected. How long should the battery last? Does this mean 1kW is been drawn from the battery? - Or is there a lower but equivalent wattage drawn by the inverter?  
« Last Edit: June 18, 2006, 06:57:27 AM by aidanhydro »

Nando

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2006, 03:02:27 PM »
AIDAN:


I looked your messages and you said you have:


Banki: 30 Cm diameter ; 45 CM length; head 20 meter and 60 gpm = 3.78 l/s


This will give you GROSS power wise :


3.78 * 20 * 9.81 = 742 WATTS; with overall efficiency of 0.6 ; power will be = 445 watts


RPM of banki :


Water velocity ; Sqrroot(2 * 20 * 9,81) = 19.8 m/s 1980 cm/s


RPM of Banki = 1980 / ( 2 * Pi * 30 ) = 10.5 RPS * 60 s/minute = 630 RPM


Check your Axial Generator at such RPM.


Nando

« Last Edit: June 22, 2006, 03:02:27 PM by Nando »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2006, 01:46:27 PM »
Hi Nando,


Thanks a million for your calculations - I hope to have more accurate measurements in a couple of weeks - we are getting surveyors to make a 3D map of our land (not just for the hydro project). I have built the same alternator as described in Hugh Piggot's plans using 10 coils of 15AWG wire. Do you think it could handle that speed RPM?


Aidan

« Last Edit: June 23, 2006, 01:46:27 PM by aidanhydro »

Nando

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2006, 09:26:01 PM »
I am not familiar with Hugh's generator, He may answer such question.


With the RPM you have a PMA, like 1 HP ECM may Motor produce your watts, as well as, the S&D motor.


If you have not designed the Nozzle, here you have a sample to give yourself an idea.


Nando




« Last Edit: June 23, 2006, 09:26:01 PM by Nando »

Nando

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2006, 09:30:18 PM »
I forgot to include a photo of a Plaster of Paris mold to make a Nozzle in fiberglass.


Nando




« Last Edit: June 23, 2006, 09:30:18 PM by Nando »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2006, 06:15:50 AM »
That nozzle looks great - just what i need. How did you go about making the plaster of paris mold? Could you also outline the process for making the final fiberglass piece?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 06:15:50 AM by aidanhydro »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2006, 06:36:43 AM »
Another question: Which would be better to do: Buy one 12v 100 amp hour sealed gel battery or get 6 x 12v 17 amp hour sealed gel batteries and connect them in parallel?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 06:36:43 AM by aidanhydro »

Nando

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2006, 02:04:50 PM »
In previous message I attached a drawing for a Nozzle.


DO YOU KNOW how to calculate the Nozzle throat dimensions ?.


It has an error and it is the lower lip that says 1/8 clearance WRONG the clearance should be, as closest as, as possible to the edge of the turbine blades to reduce the splash or water escaping from the Nozzle.


You have 3.78 l/s, though no information about minimum and maximum water volume levels that can be used to see if the Banki needs 1, 2 or even 3 Nozzles to cover water variations.


Checking the Banki, it seems that the blades angle are too steep, how did you define this angle, how did you calculate it ?.


Why the 45 Cm Banki length ?. How did you design for such length ?.


The drawing is for a 6 1/8 inch Banki radius, so you need to convert this to the radius of your Banki RATIO for all the dimensions, except the angles that stay the same.


The length of the Nozzle lip, depends on the number of blades, this nozzle is for 45 degrees coverage for 3 blades minimum.


This coverage can be seen on the drawing that is formed by the radius of the Banki plus the setting of the offset point of 1 3/4 inches from the radius point forming the secondary Radius, of 7 inch, that goes down to the lower lip covering point .


The THROAT of the Nozzle is located at the Junction where the 1/4" steel plate that is at 90 degrees to the Banki and the end of the 6"R external curve of the Nozzle, and at the UPPER end of tHE 6.354 degrees angle


The throat WIDTH of the Nozzle is defined by these two radius and the LENTGH of the Nozzle then is defined by the water volume and the head of the system .


The upper 6" MOUTH can be varied, depending on the water volume and the pipe coupled to the nozzle.


This nozzle should be made with variable adjustment to carefully setting to the Banki edges to make sure that there is a tight coupling - a somewhat long hose ( flexible) would be ideal for such settings.


Make the Plaster of Paris and adjust the dimensions by shaving ir or adding more plaster until you get the body as you need, then cover it with fiberglass, including the curved area for you to cut later, some place external ribs to make the lip stiff and as el at the end a rib horizontal to the lower lip to avoid lip curving due to the water pressure.


Nando

« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 02:04:50 PM by Nando »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2006, 05:59:55 PM »
Nando,


Firstly, thanks for taking the time to study and respond to my postings. The diameter and length of the turbine is not based on any calculations made - I just built it that way. The blades however are based on the designs described at http://home.carolina.rr.com/unclejoe/  .Are you suggesting that maybe the turbines should be bigger or smaller? - Is there a method of calculating the appropriate size of the turbines? I will be replacing the end plates of the Banki turbines soon, so that would be a good time to make any changes to the design if necessary. Are you in Europe or the US?    


Aidan

« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 05:59:55 PM by aidanhydro »

Nando

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2006, 06:54:27 PM »
AIDAN:


I live in Texas, USA . Where are you ?>


The length of the Banki is defined by the water volume that goes through it, with the Nozzle width as defined in my previous message .


One can make the Banki longer though it is not necessary, most people make them; for the smaller sizes, about 50 % longer than the length of the nozzle to give room to the metal and some extra space for easy work, for the larger Bankis just enough to clear the Nozzle length with its metal envelope.


I presume that no nozzle water level control will be used since you have a very limited volume.


The diameter of the Turbine is defined by the RPM you need, if you want NOT to have gearing to multipiy the RPM for the Generator, BUT if the generator has a peak power at certain RPM within the range of the Banki, it may be OK to calculate for that RPM to attain maximum efficiency.


Bankis are calculated to certain RPM as defined by Banki formulas, Joe Cole, I believe has a scanning of an report done many years ago, in the 1949 or 1950's, I had a copy, when young that, I translated for a project, when in high school, my older cousin in doing Hydro work, brought if from USA in one of his trips.


Joe Cole had a EXCEL program to calculate the size and length based on the parameters you have.


There are others available for such purpose, though you may need to understand them to be able to use them.


Nando

« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 06:54:27 PM by Nando »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2006, 11:06:04 AM »
Hi Nando,


I'm in Ireland.


I download the 'The Banki Water Turbine' paper from Joe Coles page:  http://home.carolina.rr.com/unclejoe/ .


Aidan

« Last Edit: June 25, 2006, 11:06:04 AM by aidanhydro »

Don Cackleberrycreations

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2006, 11:36:25 AM »
Maybe Im missing something . It would seem that to gain efficincy you would mount the blades to a solid core in the water wheel . If water is allowed into the center it would create drag . where as if your paddles dont allow water to escape to the center you would gain more power from a given sourse.

Reguardless most wheels will only untilize 25% of their diameter .

« Last Edit: June 25, 2006, 11:36:25 AM by Don Cackleberrycreations »

Nando

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2006, 01:56:31 PM »
Bankis without center shaft, do require additional ball bearings and stiff wheel plates and blades .


For small Bankis like yours a center shaft is best though the mill may have less efficiency.

You may see drawings showing the waterways throught the wheel, most do not show going through the center, therefore no hitting the center shaft.


Bankis without center shaft may have a large water volume covering more than 3 blades ( 45 degrees), some may go 60 to 80 degrees coverage, all depends on the water volume, head, diameter of the wheel and overall length.


Blades angle: most direct the water exiting the primary blades in a way that normally do not "crash" onto the center shaft.


Nando

« Last Edit: June 25, 2006, 01:56:31 PM by Nando »

Vtbsr

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2006, 02:06:56 PM »
Hi Don, With the crossflow or banki, the key word is crossflow. The water hits the vanes then runs past the center shaft. Then it hits the vanes a second time before falling out. Most of the energy is given up on the first hit. If the vanes went all the way to the center shaft, the turbine would flood and then act like a water wheel not very efficent. One other option for flow  differences, is to put center partitions in the runner. This might make the plastic vanes a little stronger. Say on a 12 inch wide runner have a 4 in and 8in partitions. It would be hard to make the adj. nozzel however.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2006, 02:06:56 PM by Vtbsr »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2006, 05:52:28 AM »




This picture shows the view from the hydro site after a couple of hours rain. From the bottom of the picture to the top of the picture shows approximately 3.5 meters of head.






Here is the part of the river just above the first picture (view from hydro site)






Photo taken from same site with river at it's lowest. The pipe used (scrap pipe) in the picture was 18m x 38mm (internal) and gave a head of 3.5m and a flow rate of 2.75 litres / sec.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 05:52:28 AM by aidanhydro »

Slingshot

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2006, 04:43:08 PM »
Wow, I was reading through your project, but all I could think of was "what a beautiful place to live!".  


Is the water turbine your own design, or did you find tested plans somewhere?

« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 04:43:08 PM by Slingshot »

aidanhydro

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2006, 05:36:15 PM »
The only way to describe our land is 'magical' - it's an amazing place to be. I will be posting more photos of the area in the next couple of hours.


As for the project, i've never built a hydro (or wind) generator before - i've been researching on the internet (mainly this site) and books over the past few months. As for the water turbine - it's my own design and they haven't even been tested yet, but i am optimisitc. The alternator design is based on Hugh Piggott's plans.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 05:36:15 PM by aidanhydro »

zebkhan

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2006, 11:18:10 PM »
i tried to mail u through ur adress but it wasnot working what ever iam going to design the cross flow turbine for micro hdro purposes u have done the same thing if u can provide me some data on how to design it. i mean all theory and formulae involved there in plz,iaam waiting...........
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 11:18:10 PM by zebkhan »

zebkhan

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Re: First Micro Hydro Project
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2006, 11:39:30 PM »
i have tried to mail u but ur adress has some prob. Iam going to design the cross flow turbine for micro hdro purposes. U have done the same thing if u can provide me some data on how to design it. i mean all theory and formulae involved there in plz,iaam waiting.......and i need guidance so plz.........my email is gulls_cherry@yahoo.com.Any one else who sees this posting and can provide some help so plzzzzzzzzzz contact me

« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 11:39:30 PM by zebkhan »