Author Topic: CFL News and information  (Read 7637 times)

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wooferhound

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CFL News and information
« on: February 21, 2007, 03:09:54 PM »
Australia proposing to Outlaw Incandescent bulbs in 3 years

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21258888-421,00.html


California is proposing to Ban Incandescent bulbs by 2012

http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/31/news/companies/bc.energy.california.lightbulbs.reut/index.htm?postve



rsion=2007013108


Great .PDF file with information about CFL bulbs including Schematics and descriptions

http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/applicationnotes/AN98091_1.pdf

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 03:09:54 PM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 08:26:19 AM »
Wonder if there will be exceptions.

Ovens, refrigerators, clothes driers...


If they word it right, it could ban flashlight and car head/tail light bulbs!

G-

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 08:26:19 AM by ghurd »
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richhagen

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 08:37:45 AM »
I was wondering that too.  While in general, I don't run incandescents in my house or elsewhere for economic reasons, there are still a few that might be a bit difficult to replace and banning them completely and in there entirety might not be a great idea.  Fridge, oven, and very small incandescent bulbs (many on vehicles) would be more difficult to replace, although soon, more efficient LED's may be options for some of those places.  Cree is up to 70 lumens per watt now for production white LED's, and I don't think that Luxeon, Avago, Nichia and others are far behind.  Rich
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 08:37:45 AM by richhagen »
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dinges

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 08:44:49 AM »
Great...


Though I'm not in favour of the use of incandescents for lighting purposes in general, this is the other extreme... Forbidding them. So, in 10 years time, when found in possession of an incandescent lightbulb, will we have to justify ourselves in court?


Whatever happened to freedom... Anyway, trust your government to solve this problem.


"Each bulb lasts between 4 to 10 times longer". Yeah right. That's why I had to replace CFLs after respectively 3 days, 8 days and 3 months.


Better start banning cheesy CFLs too, I suppose.


Tiny detail: the lighting company is not Phillips. It's Philips.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 08:44:49 AM by dinges »
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whatsnext

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 09:56:47 AM »
When incandescent bulbs are outlawed only outlaws will have incandescent bulbs.  


This is really absurd because there are not CFL equivalents for a really large number of bulbs and there won't ever be. Try making a cfl with a 15 degree throw that's only two inches in diameter like a PAR track light. Jeez, does any politician think things through before opening their pie holes?

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 09:56:47 AM by whatsnext »

asheets

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 10:20:56 AM »
WOn't happen -- Incandescents are cheap and profitable to manufacture, with very little waste product involved.  The same cannot be said for other technologies.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 10:20:56 AM by asheets »

Bruce S

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 10:35:10 AM »
One more thing to consider, how many people are going to know they have to replace that dimmer switch before putting in a CFL, so the switch doesn't become a fire hazard?

Those "special" switch are up there in prices. I use CFL almost everywhere too, but not in the fridge and certainly NOT in the stove.


Reads more like some politicion trying to keep his name in the lime-light, again without thinking first.

Hopefully by the time this nonsense makes it to the Midwest they'll have killed the bill.


Cheers

Bruce S

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 10:35:10 AM by Bruce S »
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Bruce S

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 10:59:57 AM »
Just finished loking at the PDF, very nice of them to explain.

Also , this makes even better sense of why when NTL connected his 60Vdc to the CFL it was able to light with little to no problems.

Once the heater has done it's startup, and the buld is lit makes it easier to understand why once lit, the CFLs will stay lit with lower voltages.


Thanks for the PDF!!

Bruce S

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 10:59:57 AM by Bruce S »
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nothing to lose

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 12:04:08 PM »
I actaully got the CFL to light on a charged 48V bank for those that did not read the post. But I left the room and it was burned out when I went back about 10-20 minuts later. Something in the bulb fried and it deos not light on 120AC now either.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 12:04:08 PM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2007, 12:53:43 PM »
As far as baning the Incandescent ones, that's plain stuipid and we need to outlaw laws and ban lawmakers in this country.


There are many many uses for Incandescent that CFL or LED can not and never will fill! Often we need low heat and light at same time! Incandescent works perfect for this!


TOYS! Cooking stuff like Holly Hobby ovens, they use a simple 100watt or 60 watt bulb to bake cakes. You have light to watch it bake and heat to bake it! LED or CFL cannot do that!


Incubators for eggs. Heat and have light same as toy oven but for hatching eggs.


Chicken brooders, keep those day old chicks alive in cold weather till they are a few weeks or months old. Need light and heat.


Chicken coops, keep coop warmer in cold weather so chickens do not huddle to close and smoother themselfs, the light extends the shorter winter days for them and hens eat more and lay more eggs.


Tempory low heat for about anything, prevent a well pumphouse from freezing in winter.


 Thaw a frozen feul line on a car, yes I have done that with about 5 100 watt bulbs, A fire would not have been safe. Took awhile and I had to cover car all the way to ground to block wind with tarps and carboard around the bottom of car, but it worked.

I did not have a heater or heat gun handy, but I had light bulbs :)


Thaw a frozen house water line, I have done that. Place lights under pipe for a few hours. Fire not safe, 1500watt heater on a zip cord not safe either! 1 or 2 100watt bulbs near the frozen joint, perfectly safe. Best is a heat gun and good heavy duty cord, but how many average people have one? About every one has a couple lamps.


Ice fishing, you need heat and light, Yes I do know of a few people using light bulbs, I set one person up and he said it worked well a couple years ago. Also said he helped a friend build another one, so I may have started a trend.

 Foamboard insutation well sealed to hold heat in, light bulbs for heat as needed, couple 115amp deepcycles, about 400watt inverter. Good for a days fishing and he said really cut down his propane costs for those small tanks for heaters. He charges the batteries durring the week mostly with a small windgenny I gave him. Last time I talked to him he said on many days the bulbs are are he uses, mostly just to keep his hands and feet warm as needed.

 Incandescent,the RE solution! Less propane polution, fewer $2.50 2lb tanks in the dumps!


 Recently it was even mentioned on this forum about building a small box with a light bulb to help cure resin castings in cold weather.


Banning Incandescent would just plian be stupid, so watch for the government to do it. Better solution is to inform people to make the choice, not force it!


I was just asked recently by daughters friends parents about the CFLs. They use 2,000 watts of light in the house or more! NO JOKE! The ceiling fan in one room has 5 or 7 60watt Incandescent bulds in it, same same fan in at least 3 other rooms down stairs and I have no idea whats up stairs, plus other lights in the house. They were talking about the $500-$600 electric bill, 15 year daughter said you would save tons of power if you changed to CFL lights, so they asked me about them.


 People need information, not bans!


Ban a product and we will hord all we can get, nothing will change untill trillions of bulbs are bowing out. INFORM and things will change quickly because people want to cut costs and save money.


I know where there is a whole skid of BANNED FREON still right now, he will use it till he runs out. Who else horded several tanks or a skid load?

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 12:53:43 PM by nothing to lose »

zap

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2007, 01:32:26 PM »
Shhhhhh... or next thing you know they'll be trying to ban the limelight, then what would all the politicians and actors do?

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 01:32:26 PM by zap »

gotwind2

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2007, 03:30:08 PM »
Interesting - our U.K's holiday resort of the famous Blackpool illuminations, a six mile strip, having one million incandescant bulbs illuminated for 66 days of the year - Probably not 60w bulbs, maybe 20-40w - The math is there somewhere?


I believe the incandescent bulbs are just trashed after this period.


It will cost at least double that for C.F.L's - if they can be safely stored?

Las Vegas? similar challenge maybe - I don't know.



« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 03:30:08 PM by gotwind2 »

wooferhound

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2007, 04:12:58 PM »
Yes ,  a small Space heater for almost anywhere

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/2/8/183240/2517


I like to use them in areas where the pipes tend to freeze as an alternative to heat tape.


Also ,  CFLs don't like to be turned on and off quickly over short periods of time, like a bathroom. The tube ends get black and it stops working


The low power 5 & 7 watt CFLs that I use don't seem to last any longer than a regular incandescent bulb.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 04:12:58 PM by wooferhound »

Norm

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2007, 04:36:12 PM »
A good idea that seems to make sense ....

skylights...one Walmart uses skylights of about

5 percent of their ceiling area making it possible

to use about 75% less electricity and still have

eqivalent lighting compared to their other stores

....it's been in operation about 5 years now....

seems like it would start catching on at other

new Walmarts as they are being built ?

               ( :>) Norm.

           
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 04:36:12 PM by Norm »

vawtman

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2007, 05:23:50 PM »
Ghurd could one use led bulbs in those appliances?I know they make them has direct replacements for the smaller bases now.


 If one wanted a decorative bulb since the covering is epoxy not glass could have fancy swirls if required like glass.


 Ive already banned those icanburnouts

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 05:23:50 PM by vawtman »

PeterAVT

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Worse still
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2007, 05:27:21 PM »
Worse still, try being an artist/photographer. I do a bit of both, and there are some situations where I am extremely particular about the quality of light. I can tolerate CFL's in some areas of the house, but not for long. The 60-cycle hum leads to amazing headaches, and the color balance/temperature is way off. When it really matters, I tend to favor projector-style halogen "daylight" bulbs. For everyday survival I mix a combination of very small incandescents with 15-watt CFL's and good diffusers. Or at least use the reflected light instead of direct beam. Thankfully I don't live anywhere near these areas where these laws are proposed. It would be absolute hell for me.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 05:27:21 PM by PeterAVT »

terry5732

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2007, 11:15:24 PM »
These same two places banned law abiding citizens from having certain types of guns to reduce crime. They must be real safe places now.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 11:15:24 PM by terry5732 »

Gordy

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2007, 11:33:26 PM »
Woof,


I'm glad to hear someone else noticed that the life of the cfl's suck. Addvertised 5 to 7 year life, fine print on back gives one year warrenty. The light's I use regularly, the bulb's last 4 to 12 months. I have been marking the bulb's and cardboard part of the packaging with the date and store where purchased, and keeping the sales receipt for returning them.


Is there something different in the gut's of the newer one's that let's them burn out so much faster than the old one's (cfl's)?


Is there one brand that's better than the other's? So far I've used the "Lights Of America" and "Feit Electric" brand's.


Gordy

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 11:33:26 PM by Gordy »

nothing to lose

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2007, 01:03:26 AM »
Other than ones I ruined myself abnormally I have not had any go bad yet, well over a year on many but not sure at all about the actaull time I have been using them. Might be 2-3 years or more? Any bodies geuss on that.


I do know I was using some at the rock house I had rented, and those would be at least a full 2 1/2 years old now. Those were ran on my Aims 5K inverter at the rock house and here on normal grid AC when I moved backed.


I think a few are LOA brand, most are GE brand. The porch light is a GE and well over a year old, under a roof pointing downwards, in all weather. Cold nights it lights a bit dim untill it warms up, but it works hot, cold, rain, snow, fog, etc.. of course it's not right out in the rain directly but it's an open fixture under an open roof and the CFL is in the humidity including heavy fog at times here and morning due and frost. It worked on our coldest nights here this year, maybe around 7F though it lit dimmer till it warmed up.


About the only CFL I use is 26/100. 26watts of power for equal to 100watts light, I think that's 1700 lumens?


Some of these older CFL's cost me $5 each and more, the new ones cost me about $2.50 each. Are the new ones as good? I can't say since I have not used them as long of course but they are about half the cost of the older ones. Perhaps only half as good??

 Also I was blowing normal cheap bulbs (4/$1 100 watt) all the time, changing at least one or two a month, I never blew a CFL.


That's the drawback to CFL for me, mine last so long I have to take them out and clean them once in awhile. Very dusty around here. They get dirty and put out less light, I take them out and wipe tube with damp rag and they are good as new.


I just bought 3 3packs today for friends that were asking about them and have over a $500 power bill for a month, using well over 2,000watts in normal bulbs in the house, EEEK!

 $7.58 a 3 pack. I gave them a pack each of 60, 75, 100, watt bulb equivelents. I don't remember the actual power they are supposed to use, like 15, 20, 26 watts or close.

 The nice fans these people have use either 5 or 7 bulbs and they had 60watters in them. If they like the CFL and use them in all their fan lights they should cut thier bill by a $100 or more per month at least!!


 I'll try to see how long those new bulbs last them if we can keep track of it.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 01:03:26 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2007, 01:23:33 AM »


That sounds good, but I wonder, what is the insulation value of a skylight? I mean letting in light to save electric on lighting is good, but does it also let out heat and raise winter heating costs?


Also does it let in heat from the sun when it's letting in the light, perhaps raising summer cooling costs also.


If they use more electric and gas for cooling and heating, then perhaps they are not saving anything, it might even be costing them more?


I never saw the store or skylights myself so I am curious about this.


 If they only measured the power the light circuits use normally and then the lower power used by the same light circuits when using large skylights, did they check the other stuff that could be effected?

« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 01:23:33 AM by nothing to lose »

wooferhound

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Re: Worse still
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2007, 04:56:03 AM »
If you get headaches from a CFLs Flashrate then the problem is with yourself, because CFLs don't flash at all. They operate at frequencies above 20,000 hz and more typically at 33,000 hz as described in the PDF file linked at the top of this page. From what I understand, at that frequency the gas never has a chance to deionize and so the brightness remains constant at those high frequencies . . .

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/6/20/201722/957


Color Rendering Index or, the ability of the light to show a range of colors

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/CRI


Color Temperature Chart or, How orange is that light ?

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/ColorTemp

« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 04:56:03 AM by wooferhound »

Titantornado

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2007, 05:17:16 AM »
LOL, it's California. Land of wacky laws.  Anything can happen there.  
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 05:17:16 AM by Titantornado »

ghurd

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2007, 06:38:54 AM »
A few problems I can think of...


LEDs are directional and most bulbs like ovens, etc. mount the bulb 90 degrees to where they want the light.  Most LED bulbs would be like a flashlight shining the wrong direction.  The LEDs could be shining sideways, but the base would need to line up with the socket so when the bulb was tight the LEDs were facing the right way.


Cost. Replacing 40 or 60W with LEDs is NOT cheap.


Size. Replacing 40 or 60W with LEDs won't fit, physically, where an appliance bulb fits.


Efficiency. All that money for LEDs (in this type of use) won't save any power anyway.

Gains are made everyday, but it will not be efficient or economically viable for a long time.


Smuggling.  The Prohibition `Great Lakes Rum Runners' would be crossing Lake Tahoe every night, boats filled with incandescent bulbs.  Border towns like Pahrump, NV would be the new Tijuana.  Light bulb gangs struggling for control.  Mass corruption greater than Chicago ever had.  Husbands and fathers overflowing the jail systems, convicted of trying to `score an incandescent' in the seedier downtown areas.

Could it be the end of civilization as we know it?  ;-)

« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 06:38:54 AM by ghurd »
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dinges

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2007, 06:50:53 AM »
Hear hear Gordy!


I always write the date on batteries, CFLs and other stuff, to keep a tab on how long they last. (but maybe I'm a freak; I think I'm the only one who can tell that from a certain gasoline-station, I get 1.5 km/liter more fuel useage than from another station).


The very first CFL I bought is still in use at my parents house. It is a Philips bulb and was bought in '92. A similar lamp I gave as a birthday present to my then-landlady. It's still in use too, last time I checked. Back in those days a CFL cost about 20$. Expensive. But if it's still working 15 years later...


A few months ago, CFLs started failing on me. One had been in use for 11 months. I replaced it with another, similar one. It lasted 8 days. Replaced it again: 3 days of use this time. Admittedly, they were the cheap 1$-variety. But they got returned to the store, as I still had the box and receit (anyone else saves receits and boxes of 1$ CFLs... ?)


BTW, I bought these cheap 1$ CFLs because they looked -exactly- the same as the Philips branded ones. I was thinking they probably were made in the same factory. Maybe. Maybe they were the quality rejects. Or it was the Chinese way of making it look as if it is just a re-branded product that came out of the same factory. Who knows.


Oh yeah. Last time a CFL blew, it did so with a loud bang and emission of smoke. To the point I'm now reluctant of leaving them on in a room where I'm not due to possible fire hazard.


You'll be hard-pressed to find an incandescent lightbulb in my house. But, if one starts banning incandescents, then one should also start banning bad quality CFLs.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 06:50:53 AM by dinges »
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PeterAVT

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Re: Worse still
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2007, 08:28:23 AM »
Hrmmm, news to me, I'll explore that one! Thanks for the tip!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 08:28:23 AM by PeterAVT »

whatsnext

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Re: Worse still
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2007, 10:00:45 AM »
Old time cfl's used a choke as a ballast and still strummed at 60hz. They also never seem to wear out so they may be what the poster is talking about.

John.......
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 10:00:45 AM by whatsnext »

Norm

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2007, 02:25:47 PM »
The skylights don't seem to let direct sunlight in they must have some kind of shelter or they

would have been darker when snow got on them...

unless they have a crew to shovel off the skylights?

  They must be frosted glass also....you can't look up and see blue sky or clouds???

   I think a lot of places have cut down on heat

....I was in K-Mart today and except for the wind

not blowing on you inside ...might as well been

outside.

              ( :>) Norm.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 02:25:47 PM by Norm »

valterra

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2007, 06:59:15 AM »
True!  From what I understand the homicide and armed robbery rates both went way up in Austrailia.  Strange.  Government bands get ridiculous.  There are black-market 5 gallon toilets for goodness' sake!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 06:59:15 AM by valterra »

valterra

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2007, 07:00:02 AM »
...and government BANS are even MORE ridiculous!   ;-)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 07:00:02 AM by valterra »

gordon01639

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2007, 09:32:02 AM »
Its not only Australia and America banning incandescents, in the UK they will be banning them in 2009, it seems Tony blair wants to cause just 1 more stink before he go's. I will personally have to change quite a few light fittings that you cant even get cfl equivalents for. surely there are more important issues in the world than this.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 09:32:02 AM by gordon01639 »

Capt Slog

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2007, 06:38:24 AM »
Not just the UK, it's an EU (European Union) thing.


I've started putting them in at home where its convenient, but like others have said, the colour of them is awful, and I haven't found any here yet that are ok for low level lighting.


The ones I have in outside areas are useless when it is very cold, they take ages to get bright enough.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 06:38:24 AM by Capt Slog »

alancorey

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2007, 02:39:19 PM »
I like CFLs, but they don't take heat very well, like in a recessed enclosure.  I also had a couple die really fast in a fixture with a pullchain switch from the vibration apparently.  Seems the filaments in them don't stand up as well as incandescents.


We're approaching the point where we have so many stupid laws that pretty soon we'll need a mandatory 1 year course in high schools just to make people aware of enough to survive without breaking any.  Too many aren't thought out very well.


  Alan

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 02:39:19 PM by alancorey »

ghurd

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Re: CFL News and information
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2007, 04:20:07 PM »
Keep them cool. Drill the vent holes bigger or add some vent holes.

G-
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 04:20:07 PM by ghurd »
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