Author Topic: electronic ballast current v iron ballast wattage  (Read 6515 times)

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rgormley

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electronic ballast current v iron ballast wattage
« on: December 14, 2007, 03:11:10 AM »
hope a simple question answer


without me getting up with my fluke, and measuring the current.... (yes call me lazy but the work may have been done by someone here)


what would the difference be on a 40 watt fluro tube running the old standard iron core ballast V the new Electronic ballast units?


i`m thinking of changing to the newer electronic ballast, but if the wattage is nearly the same i may not bother...

also my MSW inverter may not like the electronic ballast (rather the Elec/Ballast will not be happy with MSW)


...richard

« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 03:11:10 AM by (unknown) »

commanda

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Re: electronic ballast current v iron ballast watt
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2007, 12:01:52 AM »
Fluoro tubes are generally more efficient when fed with the high frequency from an electronic ballast.


Anecdotally, I have run 18/20 watt 2 foot tubes to full brilliance on 12 to 15 watts dc input. I've also seen commercial electronic ballasts that run a 20 watt tube on 12 watts dc input.


For maximum efficiency, you're better off running low voltage (12 or 24 volt) CFL's directly off your batteries, and forget the inverter. Also, low power inverters generally don't have load sensing (auto start). So you need to turn it on manually at sundown. You then leave it on all night (drawing idle current) in case someone needs to get up in the middle of the night. And remember to turn it off in the morning. And if a cheap low power inverter fails (it will) you lose all your lights.


I would actually expect that the electronic ballast would be happier on a MSW inverter than the old iron core ballast. Just my gut feeling from understanding the circuitry.


Personally, I'm currently building a bunch of low power inverters, 24 volt dc input, high voltage dc output, capable of running several garden variety, buy em anywhere, huge range to choose from, mains powered CFL's. But that's just me.


Amanda

« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 12:01:52 AM by commanda »

Flux

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Re: electronic ballast current v iron ballast watt
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2007, 02:19:52 AM »
What a difficult question to answer.


Most commercial ballasts seem to take a compromise between Electrical Watts in to the ballast and watts into the tube. The end result is that in general there is not a lot of difference in the power in, as measured by a wattmeter.


For those manufacturers who rate for tube watts then you will see probably 10 to 15% reduction in power requirements from the electronic ballast.


As Amanda said, the hf operation gives more light and if you have a photometer you will find that for a given power in, the electronic ballast will do significantly better. Unfortunately the eye is a poor photometer and the improvement may not be so obvious.


Now to the real sting in the tail. This all applies on sine waves and you are considering modified square wave operation so what effect does this have?


Magnetic ballasts don't like these crappy waveforms, the iron losses rise in the choke, they hum and vibrate, the wattage for a given voltage changes, the power factor correction if fitted fails to correct the thing for other than a sine wave and presents a nasty load to the inverter which at best will reduce the number of lights it can run. It may kill a small cheap poorly protected msw inverter.


What about electronic ballasts? The simple things used for compact cfl rectify to dc with a bridge and run perfectly happily on msw. much more satisfactory than any magnetic version.


Not so simple with more expensive and sophisticated ballasts for bigger tubes, these ( at least in Europe) seem to use power factor controlled rectifiers that object violently to the dreadful waveform and may refuse to operate, they may blow up but I haven't had one do so. Tridonic engineers told me not to try on msw. These units all work on dc and if you rectify the output with a bridge and smooth it a bit they work perfectly BUT the dc voltage range is significantly lower than the ac range and you are likely to find the peak rectified dc is above the permitted dc rating and they may shut down on over voltage. Having to include a transformer to overcome this is a pain and so is the need to rectify at each light ( modern light switches won't handle dc so that rules out dc distribution).


Maybe N American ballasts still use earlier technology and they may work like the little cfls.


My take on this is that small msw inverters will only handle cfl or non power factor corrected electronic ballast. Big ones will run magnetic ballasts but not completely effectively. Using pfc electronic ballast requires conversion to dc but watch the voltage rating. I wouldn't trust and ballast manufacturer who is not prepared to be honest about the suitability for non sinusoidal operation.


I tend to do as Amanda suggests and run each light with its own inverter from the low voltage, but there are very few low voltage ballasts that genuinely work properly except for the little cfl sized things. I have had to build my own to get the results I want. It is all to easy to make inverters that give light but at lumens per watt that don't much exceed halogen and that seems pointless.


Sorry it has probably put you off rather than answering a simple question but that has been my experience.


Flux

« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 02:19:52 AM by Flux »

Electron Skipper

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Re: electronic ballast current v iron ballast watt
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 10:59:27 PM »
If you are handy with a soldering iron, and your system is above 30 volts, you may want to consider looking at some of the actual "Florescent Lighting Controller" chips offered by a number of manufacturers.  


Buried in some of the application notes, they admit to being able to operate a florescent luminaire within the ratings of the chip down to about 30 volts.  They did not test below that level.


On Semiconductor and Texas Instruments are two who have such chips available.  Even CFL's have them.


Some of them are even dimmable.


Options that way abound.


Zetex has a simple switching circuit intended for a small florescent light in their application notes.  Since they tell you how to wind the transformer, you can scale it up to construct the basic circuit being described above.


But when you take light measurements, don't just point the light meter at the fixture- this gives a false reading: instead measure the amount of light reflected from a gray card.  Photographers use an 80% gray card, but you may need to go lighter.  A light meter simply pointed at a fixture cannot tell the difference between 70 Lumens and 500 Lumens, by the same token, it cannot distinguish the reading directly at 2 feet, or 8 feet- yet at 8 feet, the light intensity is 9 times less regardless of source.  


On the other hand of practicallity, if you are going to shell out for the electronic ballasts, why not look at some of the "Power LED" options out there?  Lamina Ceramic has some nice ones comparable to some of the electronic ballasts for cost.  Most are intended to be used with a lens, but without a lens, you get a nice broad wash of light.  


Lite On has some, and a few others too.  I have not checked my Mouser catalog, but I do know Digikey carries a good number of the manufacturers.  

« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 10:59:27 PM by Electron Skipper »

Hugh

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Re: electronic ballast current v iron ballast watt
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 03:35:00 AM »
Do you think it possible to run 4 foot 54 watt flouros with DC, if so could you direct me to some information in this regard.

I'm using 54 watt T5HO's from Sylvania ( Quicktronic series ), there 47 inches long and put out 5000 lumen's


Hugh

« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 03:35:00 AM by Hugh »

ghurd

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Re: electronic ballast current v iron ballast watt
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 05:54:07 AM »
Thin-Lite makes a DC balast for just about anything.

G-
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 05:54:07 AM by ghurd »
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