need help with my design

[divemaster1963]

the design i have is.

rotors : two front axle disc brakes 1 in. offset.

magnets: 48 2x1x1/2 ford stater magnets. (1/2in. thickness with slight curve.)

configuration 18 21 gauge coils , turns to be discussed.

question:

1. with the number of magnets I have would it be better to place the mags in groups of 2 NN 2 SS on each rotor for a total of 12 on each rotor or place 1n 1s for a total of 24 on each rotor?
   
2.  the wire i have came form some dead gas generators that i removed the alt wire from. it is 21 or 22 gauge .68mm . What no. of turns should i use to get the best performance from my setup?
   
3. 1 major problem i have is that when i place the rotors together with the mags. I have a 1 inch, gap between them. I figure the stator will be apx. 1/2 inch thick. This will leave to big a air gap. should i try and raise the mags with washers to reduce the gap.( i will be sealing the mags with epoxy to the rotors. I do not have acess to better  wire at this time but am just starting out. should i try 18 smaller coils and still go 3 phase or use 9 larger coils 3 phase. ( Im thinking the resitance may be to high on the larger coils ). I hoping to upgrade stator at a later date. I in contact with a national motor repair company that may give me their dead end rolls of wire to have. I am going to have photos soon. I will use my dollar store digital camera. Its a real toy.(for my grandkids)
   

[electronbaby]

I dont even know where to begin...you have a lot of reading and research to do yet.

Lets start with the mechanical first:

You said you have brake disc rotors? They should be positioned so that they face each other. Most people use a hub of some sort, possibly a trailer hub. Any automotive wheel bearing hub would probably work fine, you just need to assemble the rotors so that they face inwards, face to face. This usually allows you to locate the hub between the rotors. One brake disc rotor will go on the back side of the hub, and one will go on the front of the hub. This usually allows you to get a close distance between faces. After you add the magnets to the faces of the rotors, you will then need to open the rotors up to adjust for the air gap.

I have never seen "ford starter magnets" so I dont know what they are. Possibly ceramic? If you said they have a slight curve to them, maybe they are better suited for a radial alternator? Just curious.

[divemaster1963]

I hve tried placing the faces of the rotors to each other. 1 behind the hub and one in front. the gap is massive. I have placed the rotors face on face to reduce the gap. the mags arch is less than 2mm . ford starters are mostly pm starters. yes they are ceramic. but very strong. I used 2 mags and picked up a ten pound bar bell set with 1 on each weight. I building this on a zero buget. life been hard but still kicking. I have been looking all over the net for info. there is alot out there but It makes me have more questions. this is the best place i have found that people with knowhow are will to assit newbies like me learn but not hurt or kill myself in the process.

any idea on the windings qestion.

[winDorlose]

How big are your rotors? It seems that 24 magnets of that size would completely cover any diameter of a auto rotor. There could be an issue of over saturation from what I've read here on the board. I have two 10 1/4" rotors and I used 16 2x1x1/4 N42's. You should do some more reading. Search the board for "magnet spacing" and "flux leakage". The curved starter magnets pose another problem with the air gap. I have found good magnets on e-bay for a decent price (I support forcefield but I'm also a shopper). Good luck and happy contrails(chemtrails).

[divemaster1963]

the rotors are 12 inch dia. the mag spacing when placed 1n1s is 3/4 at bottm 1 1/4 at the top. I look for the info on the flux leakage. thanks

[electronbaby]

Yes, it would help to see pics of the rotors. I automatically assume that they are meant to fit the hub you are using, but I may be wrong. It might not be a standard automotive hub.

As far as the coils go, It depends on what your nominal system voltage will be. If you say 12v, then you will be about as bad as you can get. You are limited to how much current you will be able to pull from those coils because of the small wire gauge, and their resistance will be quite high unless you wind MANY in hand. Im afraid you will need many turns as well as your magnet field strength will be substantially less than the Neo mags we all love so much. My suggestion is not to expect too much current, and wind a test coil first. You probably dont need to glue it, but rather tape it well and hold it between the spinning rotors while taking your open circuit voltage readings. For 12v neo 3 phase 12/9 machines you would be around 30 turns per coil and since you are running ceramic mags you might want to try in the range of 50 turns ? (just off the top of my head) You will have to experiment.

[electrondady1]

what you have, is a lot of nice sized but relatively weak magnets.

you can imitate what the quys do with neo's but you will be disappointed

so to make the best use of them you need to use them all.

with 12" rotors you can only use half of them.

you would need to get another set of rotors and build two mills.

 you could  grind them flat,(use a diamond blade tile saw)

  and place twenty four mags each on two 19.28 dia. disks.

the rotors wont need to be solid steel .

as long as the mags are sitting on a 1/8" strip it should give you enough for a flux return path.

then do a test coil with your wire.

with a curved magnet you may want to consider doing a radial alternator design.

a 48 pole single rotor or a 24pole dual rotor

all i'm suggesting is to make up for the lack of flux density by increasing the frequency.

[ghurd]

I was thinking they may be better stacked 2 deep.

Thoughts?

G-

[electrondady1]

yes,that might be the most expedient way gurd .

he'll get a boost from the second layer.

with ceramic mags and 22 gauge wire he might need to go with  single phase.

i've been working with verticals so long now i forget the speed these propeller turn  

 

[divemaster1963]

hey there I thught of doubling them up also I think that may be the way to go . talked to a winding shop today. the older man who owns it is really interested in what i am doing and has offered to give me the wire. he said he was out of the 14 guage wire but suggested i use double 17 guage with 30 turns. he said the resitance would be the same as the 14. he also said the wire he is thinking about is top of the line and can handle 1400 volts with little heat. its the wire he uses to wind the motors for the caulk mine convayor belt motors that run 24/7. i will try to get photos thurs. I also talked to some tv shops and they said i can have the windings off of the bad tv.s. they said the copper price is to low to deal with them. Hey I also talked to a scrape yard and the man has a massive 25hp 440 pm motor that is almost new. he said he would love to offer it up to someone very low cost. it was told to him that the manufacture recalled them because of the rear bearing was not up to standard. he said wwho ever waants to get can pick it up here in macon,ga. usa it wieghts over 150 lbs. its at

Wacter Metals and Recycling Inc.

phone: 478-738-9272  Make him a reasonable offer.

[divemaster1963]

here is one of the coils also. some of my photos are going to archive instead of my photo gallery. what's up with that.

[divemaster1963]

lets add this photo

[divemaster1963]

I am having to do these one at a time for some reason.

[divemaster1963]

the rest of the photos will not post but are on my gallery. they are the ones wiith the dot and > sign on it.