Author Topic: Proposed Windmill  (Read 1471 times)

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gerd1022

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Proposed Windmill
« on: March 15, 2007, 10:39:20 PM »
hello all... I am new to posting on this board, but i have been watching it for awhile.  I'm pretty interested in wind power, so i thought id try to build my own mill.


The idea originally started because i am a college student (umass amherst), and will be living off campus next year, and was looking for a way to decrease my electricity bill (aren't we all).  as a mechanical engineer in training, i decided to make a windmill.


Here is a solidworks drawing of my proposed blade setup.



Editors Note:


1114K picture removed.



The blades are all the "zubwoofer" blades from 4" pvc, modified slightly with a 7 degree tip angle and a 35 degree base angle.  The hub is a treadmill flywheel, which will be attached to the treadmill motor.  I am thinking of making the blades 2' long, and using 6 blades as seen in the drawing.  However this is open to suggestions.  My goal is to be able to power my laptop with it, do people thing that that would be possible?


The batteries i plan on using come out of a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) They are 2 6 volt sealed lead acid batteries.  I know that these are not ideal, but i have a near limitless supply of free ones, and the whole point of this is to be free, so i am sticking with that.  Does anyone have experience with using these batteries, and is there any way that the battery charger that is already in the ups could/should be used to supply a charge from the mill to the batteries.  as i said, i am a mechanical engineer, not electrical, so im not very knowledgeable about that stuff.  


As an aside, i recently found a big honkin (10" diameter, 12" long) three phase motor for free... would this be a good canditate for my next step in wind power? (assuming there is a next step)

« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 10:39:20 PM by (unknown) »

gerd1022

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 06:07:40 PM »
sorry i saved it as the wrong thing...




« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 06:07:40 PM by gerd1022 »

Bruce S

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 01:00:07 PM »
gerd1022;

    The short answer is yes with respect to the batteries.

If the ones you are talking about are rectangle  and have a small jumper wire from one to the other then I'm pretty sure these will top out at 12Ahr at 12volts with them connected together.


These are normally called SLA type batteries and can have charging voltages much like the car batteries can. They can be very good for using as the start of a project.

You should make sure they don't sit in the sun or on their sides. Even though they are sealed they are still lead acid type batteries.

As far as getting the UPS electronics to recharge them using the 'mill. You would be better using a DC type charger. There are a number of discussion on this board about which ones to use and which works best with 'mills. You could also "google" and find any number of places that have online circuit plans that are easy enough to follow and free.

The UPS's electronics are built for AC input and charging the batt. If you know an electrical engineer there on campus they may be able to disassemble it and find the charging input section of it and allow you to tap into in, but not for the faint of heart or novice. I don't do it, it's so much easier to build from scratch that's specifically for your type of input/output power.


As for your blades, nice picture but tell us more about the windmill itself.

What are you planning on making it from, beside the honk'n motor? how high up are you going to hoist the 'mill, what are the normal wind speeds where you plan on putting this? What is the power needs of the stuff you want to run? Will they all run off DC?


All those questions will go a long way in deciding not justwhat the blade design will end up being, but also the 'mill itself.


Also, an idea of what the total power usage you're looking to want is some other numbers that will help in the design.


Hope this helps;

Bruce S  

« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 01:00:07 PM by Bruce S »
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alancorey

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 02:31:08 PM »
Hello from UMass. I'm also here, although staff in Whitmore, not a student.  I've been reading this board and playing around with stuff for a few months. Closest I've come to getting anything operational is a boxfan conversion with a 4 foot 3-blade prop I carved. Not sure I can get enough windspeed to get 12 volts out of it yet, but I finally got the motor conversion aspect working fairly well when I spin it with a drill.


There's tons of information on this discussion board, although there's no index so you have to search for things.  Both the builtin search and the Google search have their advantages over the other.  Searching for either treadmill or laptop will probably find plenty of previous posts related to what you're trying to do.


Laptops: if you're lucky enough to have one that you can get a 12 volt adapter for you'll have an easier time of it than otherwise.  I've got Dells, and they don't sell a DC adapter for them.  About the only option is to run an inverter to convert up to 117 volts, then use the Dell AC adapter, which is all fairly inefficient.  People have talked about this on this board, and the general consensus seems to be that you need 20-70 watts, maybe more if you're charging the internal battery hard or watching videos on it.  How many hours of the day you can run it on the power you accumulate in 24 hours from wind is a good question.


I suspect you'd need a good site, and if you're in town those will be hard to come by. Supposedly the ideal is something like 30 feet above anything that's within 300 feet, but I imagine lots of people live with less than that. If you're out on the fringes toward farm land maybe you could put something out in a field. Solar might make more sense, or maybe a combination.


I wouldn't mess with the charger circuitry in the UPS either.  A simple linear voltage regulator good for a few amps and regulating to 13.8 volts or so should do the trick, and they're easy enough to build.  If you had a blade over 4 ft you'd need to worry about overspeed on it, so you'd want furling and a dump load to use up surplus electricity.  I think with 4 ft you can just let it run free when your batteries are charged, which a linear regulator will do.


The batteries may be free, but what's wrong with them?  I've got one 800VA UPS that has a nice little 7.2 amp hour 12 volt battery and I liked the battery so much I bought 2 more like it.  7.2 amp hours * 12 volts = 86.4 watt hours, but you shouldn't pull most batteries down below 80% of full charge, so that would be about 69 watt hours.  If your laptop, plus inverter losses, only takes 35 watts or so you could run for 2 hours.  That's for new batteries that still have rated capacity.  As long as you can hook up a bunch of them it should work.  At BJ's in Greenfield you can buy a 72 amp hour deep cycle (still not the perfect battery) for $50.


Time to go drive home in this storm.  Hope it's one of the last for this year.  I'll get back online Sunday morning briefly.


  Alan

« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 02:31:08 PM by alancorey »

TomW

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 08:51:03 PM »
Alan;


Try this. It can really enhance "googleing".


http://www.smallbusinesshub.com/blog/tabid/6307/bid/1264/12-Quick-Tips-To-Search-Google-Like-An-Expe
rt.aspx


Just a good resource for getting the most out of searches.


I agree that Scoop leaves a bit to be desired and the Sections were laid down long ago and don't seem to really fit the forum needs now. Very few seem to actually chose a Section heading anyway and most just leave the default "Home Brewed Electricity" which is just too vague although it generally applies to most posts. I have gradually been editing posts for more appropriate Sections but that is not going to help older stuff.


Personally, I think the Sections need a complete redo but that probably will not happen and will be confusing to users if it does.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 08:51:03 PM by TomW »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 03:45:46 AM »
In regard to the laptops, many will run directly on 12v (with the downside that they will drain their internal battery then run on 12v unless you remove it). You can also buy universal laptop converters to convert the 12v to the 15-19v required. They come with many connectors so it will work with just about any laptop. They are fairly expensive in the shops but ebay do them for a lower price. Just make sure you get one that has a high enough current rating for your laptop. Mine requires 4.74A at 19v and its very hard to find one under $100 (£50).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 03:45:46 AM by AbyssUnderground »

icicle

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 07:47:45 AM »
I have a hp laptop and my charger is 18.5v 4.9amps close to 90 watts

look like the only differences between compaq and dell are:

Dell:  19v with 4.74 amps = 90.06 watts

Compaq 18.5v 4.9 amps = 90.65 watts

the difference of 0.59 watts
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 07:47:45 AM by icicle »

ghurd

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007, 11:54:04 PM »
Alan,

Shorten the blades.

G-
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 11:54:04 PM by ghurd »
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alancorey

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 02:28:10 PM »
Thanks, but I've been there.  The 4 ft set replaced a 3 ft set that was too hard to turn.  Maybe I'll try a 4 ft 2-blade set.  I'm getting discouraged with this boxfan, just too much cogging with the 1 x 1 x 1/4 magnets.


Yesterday I was playing with some Chinese dishwasher motors that have about the same stator ID.  Seem to only want 2 magnets though.


I've also been shopping for small lathes after seeing one for $400 on sale in the HF catalog.  Most interesting right now is the Micro-Mark Microlux 7x14 at $595: http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&
;ID=82710

Found a good review of small lathes at http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm  I had wanted a South Bend 9 inch which I'm used to but decided to consider imports because they're cheap and shippable.


I'm mentioning it because you're always grumbling about exceeding the capabilities of your small lathe so I've wondered which one you've got.


 Alan

« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 02:28:10 PM by alancorey »

ghurd

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 02:39:29 PM »
I have the $325 HF, and it looks a LOT the the $600 one.

Controls are a bit different, and no digital read out.

Looks identical other than that. Same color even.


For $600, often on sale for $529(?) at the store, I'd get this thing...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46199

The HF 10% and 15% coupons are good on sale prices too. $450?

G-

« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 02:39:29 PM by ghurd »
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alancorey

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Re: Proposed Windmill
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 03:01:50 PM »
Hmmm, it's fairly cheap but does it cut threads?


It's also kind of gigantic: Weight: 332 lbs, Overall dimensions: 36-3/4'' x 35-1/4'' x 19-1/4''  Swing over bed: 16-1/2''


I'd like a milling machine too someday, but I'd probably explore an XY table on a drill press first (I've got a crappy drill press with a dead motor).  Boy, do I need a drill press.  On my 4 ft blade I drilled the shaft hole crooked and some of the blade tips are 6 inches in front of others when it's spinning.  I think I'll try again.


Closest HF stores to me are 100 miles or so.


  Alan

« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 03:01:50 PM by alancorey »