Have 13' working windmill... need generator

[javbw]

Hello,

My father found and completely rebuilt an old windmill in the 70's, and it sits in our canyon yard turning for my entire life.   it is a large water pumping windmill with nothing to pump, so it lifts a rock up and down, just because it could.  It has probably lifted several hundred thousand tons worth of that rock 6"  up and down.

I was wondering if there is something I could attach to the shaft (directly or through a stepper to up the RPM) to a generator of some type.  I imagine, by looking at this site, it is possible to DIY the actual generator, but I'm a computer technician - I'm comfortable with a screwdriver, not a welder.  So I'm looking for suggestions for where to find an object or objects to attach to the windmill's 1" pumping shaft - it travels about 6" up and down over 10 seconds in a small breeze, with assumed tremendous power (since it would be used to haul water). the shaft does not rotate - it pushes up and down.  I imagine in the gearbox there would be a way to remove the shaft and whatnot, but it is antique, and I have no desire to modify the windmill itself for this task, just attach / jerry-rig something for the pumping shaft, even if it involves extreme duplicity.

My goal for the power would to be dump it back on the grid in some capacity, if possible, to lower power costs.

a picture of the overall view of the windmill, rock obscured) is found here.

http://web.mac.com/johnw/iWeb/Javbw/Photos-WillisHouse_files/P4250003_1_1.jpg

A large umbrella and a bench press board can be seen behind it, for scale.

it is surrounded by trees, but it is in a canyon that has a breeze 24/7 and goes like a bat outta hell in windy / stormy conditions.  the el nino storms in the 90's wore the paint off of the tips of the blades.

thank you in advance for the suggestions.

[javbw]

Sorry, it is a 10' wheel, not a 13'

[TomW]

javbw;

I never tried it but I wonder if you can drive an old pump jack in reverse and spin an alternator?

They were used to convert sucker rod pumps to motor driven. I have one in my scrap pile I might try it.

Often wondered how many watts those old pumpers i see turning here doing nothing could make.

Cheers.

TomW

[hvirtane]

Maybe it would be a beatiful job to make a quite big water reservoir, pump water there with the mill, then run the water down through a micro hydro like 'lil'otto'.

Otr yoj could attach on the pump rod some magnets, put them moving up and down inside a coil and extract some electricity from the coil...

- Hannu

[RogerAS]

javbw,

I've often thought about this very thing.

Here's my idea.

What about using a bicycle? Attach the sucker rod to one of the pedals and then turn a DC PM motor, like the exercise bike setup, or an alternator. A basic ten speed bike - A belt or friction drive to the shaft of the prime mover.

Just a crazy idea.

:-)

[TomW]

Roger;

Another off the shelf machine that basically takes reciprocating motion and makes rotary motion.  Good call.

I remember as a kid riding the sucker rod on windy days, Just pinch the lower coupling between your feet and hang onto the rod. Seems it had maybe a foot of lift or so but i was a kid so everything seemed big. My weight did not even seem to affect the mill. To a hick it seemed like a carnival ride. Not as much fun as grabbing a hog by the ears and jumping on then trying to remain on but good, clean fun.

Cheers.

TomW

[pepa]

You could attach a universal joint to the bottom of the shaft and a short extension rod to drive a disk like the one on an overhead bean type steam engine. The disk could then drive a generator by belt or chain and the rpm would be determined by the size of disk and sprockets (pulleys). Just a thought, pepa.

[RogerAS]

Pepa,

You nailed it! I should have thought about my Stirling engine. Heck it would be so simple.

Look at the photo below:

Imagine the displace end gone, the power section gone, with only the walking beam and the flywheel remaining. BINGO!! Of course this could, and should be, much much bigger to handle the thrust loading of the sucker rod. This way if the turbine started and the rotation was either way it would still work the same. A bike wouldn't!

Suggestion: Don't use a skill saw blade as a flywheel. :-)

Cute brain you got there Pepa, can I squeeze it, just once? :-)

[domwild]

Here is my 2 cents worth:

Have seen a system where a pulley was attached to the sails. This pulley from the windmill blades turned a tractor's generator. As these sails do not rotatate fast enough, you will need this gearing. The generator has to come from a slow revving diesel motor. Older style generators are better than modern alternators.

There is another problem. The magnetic field of the generator's stator has to be switched in only when the mill turns fast enough. A simple vane plus a mercury switch will do that for you. Having the field active all the time will make starting difficult.

Disconnect the pumping rod. The generator will autoregulate the voltage to the battery if you connect the regulator to it.

Ideally, you will also need some automatic furling system. From my Aussie memory, windmills are manually turned out of the wind when the farmer gets a cyclone (hurricane) warning. You will also need to switch in a dump load once the batteries are full and the regulator has reduced the field strength.

Dom

[thefinis]

There might be a problem with the gearing up top as they are set for a load that pulls downward at all times. I have run windmills with tight leathers that made the mill push the rod down and they will run that way but aways had slack somewhere and it causes a hammering to occur. So if you are going with any of these good suggestions make sure that all the slack is out of the gears and rods. The hammering happens when it reaches the top of the stroke and starts downward.

A flywheel or something with some momentum may keep the slack out.

Is that a pet deer in the picture?

Finis

[electrondady1]

i like the bicycle idea,a built in multiple gear up for the alternator

you would need to accuratly measure the throw of the crank up on top.

then duplicate that lengh on the bicycle pedal arm.

[finnsawyer]

I almost posted a suggestion to use a hydraulic system, since this is a pumper and could pump oil, driving a hydraulic motor, but didn't, when the question of how much power was available occurred to me.  Still that would be a possible way to go.

[wooferhound]

What about a long Lever system. something like a 10 foot (3m) pole connected to the pump shaft horizontally. and a pivot point about a foot (30cm) away. the end of the pole will then be oscillating over 5 feet up and down and at a higher speed.

[Fiche]

I spent a few hours reading this site (Go Skippy) and then caught this thread. Electrical work is my weak point but for years I played with ideas to convert potential energy to electrical. Simply taking the "grandfather clock" weights and use that principle to drive your alternators. The comment that this windmill has lifted 1,000's of tons of weight was what caught my eye.

Once I can get out away from the city, I'd like to experiment with the concept of using the solar, or in this case, the pump shaft, to lift weight(s) to store the energy. Probably multiple methods as the more the merrier. Granted the structural requirements would be "fun" (to an engineer). I figure multiple weights between 1,000 to 500 pounds. If possible... I would expect to shoot for at least a 2-story "container" for the weights.  My goal would be to essentially replace the battery storage requirements with the potential/mechanical storage requirements. Until I get the chance to try this, I'll watch these boards and other posts, since I view your expertise with the electrical aspects with envy, and maybe some will rub off on me.

[wdyasq]

Do you have any experience with hydraulics? In my experience hydraulics are very inefficient.

If you do have experience I would like to see tables, facts and figures. I would like to build some things that use hydraulics but have been afraid of the high losses. These losses will be greater on a variable-speed/power system as parts cannot be sized properly for efficiency (in my experience).

Thanks in Advance,

Ron

[Tritium]

I have been toying around with using a LARGE device similar to a pancake cylinder driven from a traditional water pumper to compress air into a 1000 gallon propane tank on the upstroke (power stroke). These mills have a tremendous amount of power in the upstroke. I have seen a stuck cylinder cause 100 ft of 2" pipe filled with water to be lifted from the casing so the potential to produce a fairly high pressure is there.

I can then use the air to drive any air powered equipment whether it is a bubble pump to raise water or air equipment in my shop. I am still thinking about this project so it is not yet a "do" project but I have 6 or 7 water pumpers not currently in use.

Thurmond

[finnsawyer]

Obviously, I wasn't looking for efficiency, just something that worked.  The tractor's pump put out about 20 gallons per minute.  The hydraulic motor was a 9 horsepower orbital motor.  With the size mill he has I don't think hydraulics would work anyway.  On the other if all he wants to do is raise rocks to new heights....?