Author Topic: Creating a UPS on steroids? (APC Smart ups 1000)  (Read 6452 times)

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Rinse

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Creating a UPS on steroids? (APC Smart ups 1000)
« on: November 01, 2007, 11:14:35 PM »
Hi,.


I have to power a small computer and some low-power lamps by a pretty inefficient generator. It's too consuming to run for a whole day.

Now I have a APC SmartUPS 1000, which is a 650 Watts UPS but the batteries are dead.


I was thinking to replace the batteries by some big ones in the hope that i can use the UPS more to save some fuel for the Generator.


I have no idea what kind of batteries are possible.. it would be nice if normal Car (or even truck) batteries would work and enhance the power time for the UPS. the original batteries for the APC 1000 are lead batteries.


Is this possible and what do i have to look for when I go to find some large batteries??

« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 11:14:35 PM by (unknown) »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: Creating a UPS on steroids? (APC Smart ups 100
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2007, 05:30:33 PM »
Hate to break it to you but running on batteries is even more inefficient than running that generator. Remember you still have to charge the batteries up again somehow, that somehow will be the generator, and it will take a lot longer to recharge them than it does to discharge.


Car/Truck batteries are no good. They don't like cycling in any shape or form. What you need are golf cart batteries or proper deep cycle batteries designed for deeper discharging. However even with these I wouldn't discharge past 50%. If you want them to last, say 20%.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 05:30:33 PM by AbyssUnderground »

Kevin L

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Re: Creating a UPS on steroids?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2007, 06:09:05 PM »
If you are running your 1000 watt generator all out to generate 80 Watt average consumtion this may be a good alternative.  Make sure you are using deep cycle batteries, as a car battery will last about 3 months.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 06:09:05 PM by Kevin L »

Bruce S

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APC Smart ups 1000
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2007, 11:34:09 AM »
As others have said, it would be better to use deep-cycle batteries.

But in the inerest of recyclying ( meaning using old not buying new) You can use car/truck batteries. Even the good large Truck 12V batteries are at MAX only 54Ahr rated.

One other thing is the recharge abilities of the UPS itself. There is a maxiumu amount of recharing that it will be able to do. This I believe is at best 3x the battery Amp hours the old batteries are rated at.

Is the one you have , one that has to external port for adding more run time for normal use? If so , the best bet would be to install correctly rated ( or as close as possible) batteries on the inside, and tap the external plug. This would be the easiest way to extend your run time. Otherwise if you have the non-exteneded run type, then you could tap the cabling coming to the original batteries to extend out to a VERY carefully insulated adapter, so you can add batteries. This works as well.

Pay careful attention to the HEAT coming off the top of the UPS, that, and the regulator clicking in/out as it tries to recharge the batteries will tell you wether or not you've exceeded its recharge rating.

I have burned up one unit doing this.

The internal X-former gets REALLY hot!!! and since APC didn't think to put insolater between the metal top and LIVE volatge, there a whole lots of danger there. There's both AC 110VAC and DC on that top circuitry board, so do be very careful!!

 When I open these up, I now tape a piece of thin cardboard on the metal part of the top cover just in case.


Hope this helps;

Bruce S

BTW: These are known for buring up batteries, I 'll bet your old ones are dry and possibly cracked, look on the bottoms and around the thinner ends. The charger part isn't smart enough to turn off, just keeps charging batteries. Idea is a good one, run loads through batteries while AC keeps batteries charged, just hard on batteries.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 11:34:09 AM by Bruce S »
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Rinse

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Re: APC Smart ups 1000
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2007, 07:03:13 PM »
Wow guys,. thanks for the info, I think i got myself a nice project for the weekend.


indeed the idea is to charge the batteries while using only 100 watts from the 900KVa generator.


I found some industrial gel batteries which are used for traffic signs. don't know anything about these batteries but i believe i can try it?


tomorrow i will open up the UPS and will try some of the ideas above.


what are the dangers when i just hook up some batteries??

« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 07:03:13 PM by Rinse »

HomegrownPower

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Re: APC Smart ups 1000
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2007, 04:32:02 PM »
Rinse

Batteries can explode !!!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 04:32:02 PM by HomegrownPower »

scottsAI

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Re: Off grid using UPS?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2007, 08:41:15 AM »
Hello Rinse,


How did your weekend project go? Nice to see follow up.


900va generator is small, so your loads must be small.

When running off a generator all items must be lowest power.

Compact florescent lamps (CFL) and Laptop come to mind. So why the 100w charging limit?


Limiting the charging to 100w is not easy nor will the batteries charge up very fast.


APC Smart ups 1000 requires 24 volts, two 12v batteries.


I have tested this unit, found it's efficiency is poor with light load.

Tested using 43 watt load and proper batteries (two 12v 12ah).

Run time was the same as using one 12ah battery with a small 300w inverter!

Yikes that's 50% efficiency for the UPS with a small load.


What exactly is a small computer? A laptop?

Off grid unless doing gaming a laptop is the best choice.

If you must use desktop at least use LCD monitor.


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 08:41:15 AM by scottsAI »

icicle

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Re: Creating a UPS on steroids?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2007, 07:14:26 PM »
it would be big and heavy use two 12 volt 8D-mhd,


  SPECIFICATIONS

  Weight:    131.70 pounds  

  Length:    20.75 inches  

  Width:    11 inches  

  Height:    9.63 inches  

  Cranking Amps:    1750  

  Cold Cranking Amps:    1400  

  Voltage:    12  


http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estore/search.asp?details=1&mscssid=UMM2VTSLUW3H9JEJDLHG7FMS9
JRL5QG5&Ntt=8d&N=0&Dx=mode+matchboolean&part_number=8D%2DMHD&Nty=0&D=8d&
Nu=Part+Number&Ntx=mode+matchboolean&part_desc=Workaholic+%2D+1400+CCA&Ns=product+Type%7
C0%7C%7CRank%7C1&Ntk=SearchGroup&js=1

« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 07:14:26 PM by icicle »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: Creating a UPS on steroids?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 05:58:18 AM »
That is a starting battery, it will not last more than a few months in a UPS application.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 05:58:18 AM by AbyssUnderground »

ericrazar

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Re: APC Smart ups 1000
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 04:25:44 PM »
Actually the apc 1000 smart ups has a plastic cover for the circuit card top. It sounds  like yours is missing. I have two apc smarts ups 1000va and one 1400va. The 1000's dont have a fan inside but the 1400 does.  I modified one 1000va to use two 125 amphour marine starting/trolling combo batteries in series.  What I found is this only works if you use hyperterminal software to reconfigure the UPS to think it has 10 external batteries like you can do with an 1000XL model. The powerchute software wont let you change it (grayed out text field) but has a field to view how many batteries it thinks it has connected after you change it with hyperterm. It seems the firmware in the unit is almost the same as the 1000XL and can be fooled into thinking it has the extra external batteries. Once I did that I ran a calibration test with a 25% load  (~160 watts) and it ran a full 12 hrs before the powerchute software went back to line power. Just go to the pdf and perform the hyperterm example to add or subtract batteries. You can't  have the powerchute and the hyperterm software running at the same time. It appears you can go higher in the external battery numbers than 10 when you use the hyperterm. I am not sure though if the microprocesser in the UPS really interprets it correctly after 10 external batteries. The 1400 va model should also allow the same change but i havent had the chance to try that yet. It would be nicer since that one has the internal fan already. You dont need any internal battery either then. you can just run heavy gauge wire into the case and transistion to the internal terminals by cutting them off and using ring terminals and screws to hold it to large ring terminal to the smaller ring terminal inside. then tape up or shrink sleeve to insulate the wires at the terminals. If you want longer battery life you can go up to golf cart batteries  (220 amp hr @ 6VDC each; you would need 4 then for 24 volts @ $65each they are better suited for deep discharges) I used the 12 vdc 125 amp hr 29 series marine batteries at Walmart / Sam's club around $70 each. I am using it as a long term back ups application during hurricane storm backouts and to keep my PC/network  up during several hour power losses should they occur. I didnt want to tie up that much batteries (golf cart size) for occasional power losses.  you could then get a high 20 amps current 30 VDc power supply to externally recharge the battery set with a generator to recharge fast enough to use the UPS overnite or something like that.


http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/ASTE-6Z8LBC_R0_EN.pdf

« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 04:25:44 PM by ericrazar »

scottsAI

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Re: APC Smart ups 1000
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 06:55:35 AM »
Thanks, I will have to try this.

Scott.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 06:55:35 AM by scottsAI »

ericrazar

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Re: APC Smart ups 1000
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2007, 10:09:24 AM »
how you like the way the UPS change works? I recently checked it on a apc 1400 and the newer 1500. It works!!! I also determined that you can "add" more batteries above 10. when you do the "remaining" minutes keep increasing even over the normal limit of 10 external battery packs
« Last Edit: December 25, 2007, 10:09:24 AM by ericrazar »