Author Topic: Winding coils  (Read 1355 times)

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Baywind

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Winding coils
« on: June 24, 2008, 06:00:48 AM »
Hello,


If a coil was supposed to have 150 turns, and lets say you were to turn it somewhere around 150 like: 148, 149, 151, 152, would that make a significant difference in the operation of the stator?


Thanks,

Felice

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 06:00:48 AM by (unknown) »

Baywind

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 12:02:53 AM »
Oh, and I meant what would happen if all of the coils in the stator had 1 or 2 extra turns in them, not if they all had the same number of turns.  
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 12:02:53 AM by Baywind »

Flux

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 01:31:46 AM »
As long as you avoid parallel circuits or delta ( best avoided anyway) it will make no difference. Without a turns counter I suspect minor variations are common.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 01:31:46 AM by Flux »

Capt Slog

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 08:05:30 AM »
"Minor variations"


Yup to that.


When Chip Slog (number 1 son) and I were doing the winding, we both eneded up counting different numbers for the same coil.  A lot of it was due to having to unwind sometimes because the strands were not lying to my satisfaction and making the coil too fat.  Other times it was just my 'senior moments' kicking in.  Either way, it usually ended in a small argument at the end of each coil.....


"There, 60"

"No, that was 62"

"are you sure"

"yes"

"I unwound a couple at around 23 you know"

"yes, but when you did, you carried on counting forwards"

"What! why the hell didn't you say!"

"I didn't want to put you off"

etc.


Regardless of all that, I would have been better with 50 turns, ah well.


.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 08:05:30 AM by Capt Slog »

Baywind

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 12:25:19 AM »
Oh, ok I got it...one more question on this topic though, when I am winding the coils I have to put one strand of wire next to the other, but what happens if I wind a coil that has some wires crossing other wires? What I mean to say is: do the coils have to have the wire wound perfectly around them, or can a strand or two of wire cross other wires?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 12:25:19 AM by Baywind »

Flux

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 01:34:29 AM »
In the perfect world a coil would be perfectly layer wound. Some attempt it, it takes a long time and extreme patience. Others just random wind the things in a few seconds.


The end result often is that the perfect coils are so neat that the thing can be assembled with a smaller air gap and quite often the thing runs stalled and the output is disappointing.


Most machine winding, especially in machines with slots can't be perfectly wound. The wire is tolerant and often the stacking factor is not much different unless you make a real mess of it.


Just do the best you can and try not to let turns slip down several layers, you will most likely not be able to layer wind it beyond 2 layers without spending many hours on each coil ( never justified). With low voltage the wire can stand the voltage stress of turns separated by at most a few volts. Nobody seems worried about the worst case and I haven't seen anyone take any precautions with bringing out the inside connection over the end of the coil ( dreadful practice but universally done).


It is difficult for people not familiar with the electrical machine industry to have a feel for what is normal. I see extremes here where some take great care to aim for perfection and others do things that the older wire coverings that I was brought up with just wouldn't tolerate.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 01:34:29 AM by Flux »

Capt Slog

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 02:12:41 AM »
I haven't seen anyone take any precautions with bringing out the inside connection over the end of the coil ( dreadful practice but universally done).


This worried me when I did it, but what's the alternative?  Do you have the inner coming out through the core of the coil somehow?


.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 02:12:41 AM by Capt Slog »

Flux

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 05:12:53 AM »
It would be a good precaution to at least slip a piece of thin high temperature insulating material under this lead as it has the potential to short to the other turns.


Something like .005" or .010" thick Nomex would be ideal. It is physically extremely strong and will stand the coil temperature. Mica or kapton would also do perfectly well. None of which may be easy to find in small quantities.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 05:12:53 AM by Flux »

CmeBREW

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 07:20:46 AM »
I always wondered about using a  small piece of fiberglass matting under the wire that crosses the coil would be better than nothing?? (before pouring the resin)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 07:20:46 AM by CmeBREW »

Baywind

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 10:29:55 AM »
Thanks guys, that helped a lot!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 10:29:55 AM by Baywind »

Tritium

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Re: Winding coils
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 10:30:15 AM »
There is lots of kapton tape in small quantities on e-bay.


Thurmond

« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 10:30:15 AM by Tritium »