Author Topic: newbie needs help  (Read 1190 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Crusader

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
newbie needs help
« on: January 15, 2009, 05:22:54 PM »
   Hey folks, going to build a wind turbine soon. Before I do though, I would like to know what you guys think would be the best(cost efficient)way to hook up to batteries, run the house from those batteries(240VAC@60Hz)and dump extra back into the grid.What equipment do I need to get to accomplish this. Was thinking about a tubine around 2KW. What output voltage would be best from the turbine for such a system? Oh, and when the batts are low switch to grid power till they are recharged. Just can't afford to make costly mistakes cause it looks like I can afford to do this once or i'll be waiting months before i'll be able to try again.So to recap....turbine charges batts,batts run house till charge gets low, switches to grid, when batts are recharged by turbine switches back to batts and in the event of batt overcharge it automatically feeds into grid for credit on the electric bill. Ok, now my head hurts..lol. Anyone got something like this? Thanks Guys !
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 05:22:54 PM by (unknown) »

sk windpirate

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 02:49:11 PM »
Hi Cursader.


You have a big request here. "BUT" you have givin us nothing about your power needs.


First: how much power do you need?



  • How much do you use: a hour/Day/Week/month/year?.
  • What is your maximum draw at one time?
  • I costs a lot of money to produce power. You can buy power cheaper that you can  produce it. It is much cheaper to cut back, than to produce more.
  • You may want to keep the extra power for Heating water. heating the house


Heating the hot tub, pool Ect.


we need more info!!!!!

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 02:49:11 PM by sk windpirate »

ghurd

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 8059
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 03:40:11 PM »
Don't take this the wrong way, but you need a math teacher, not an EE.

Three sub-sections:


"thinking about a tubine around 2KW"

"run the house from those batteries"

"(240VAC@60Hz)"

"dump extra back into the grid"


"What output voltage ?"

"in the event of batt overcharge it automatically feeds into grid for credit on the electric bill."


"the best(cost efficient)way"?


Look at it like replacing the battery in your car with a 23A?

It is 12V, but it will not get it started.

G-

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 03:40:11 PM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

Crusader

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 04:52:35 PM »
WOW,  You guys are brutal..lol. I use an average of 2000 KWh per month. It's a normal house(in Texas, lots of hot weather)no frills. Central AC/Heat, 1 frig, washer/dryer, etc. All flourecent lighting and all electric.Wanted to start off with 1 2KW unit and expand to a total of 4 units, net approx 8KW. Are there components that charge batts, invert to grid-tie from batts and can switch accordingly in one unit or what components do you think would be necessary? With expansion capabilities?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 04:52:35 PM by Crusader »

Tritium

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 05:59:28 PM »
Yes, look at Xantrex and Outback components. Also reduce all electrical loads to a minimum (no electric water heaters or cook stoves).


Thurmond (also in Texas) 33N X 101W

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 05:59:28 PM by Tritium »

wdyasq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 06:33:30 PM »
Brutal? You don't even tell us how much wind resource you have.


You have a lot of research to do before you can even ask an informed question. After you figure out conservation and insulation are a LOT less expensive than making your own power, you may find you will be using less electricity. You may find you don't have enough wind resource to fly a kite!


Now, if someone can tell me if thinking outside the box is a Metric or Imperial problem...


Ron

« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 06:33:30 PM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

Crusader

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 08:26:31 PM »
If you ever want the masses to "go wind", you have to make it where they don't have to change thier lives to do it. I'm not going to stop bathing...or cooking...or not  run the A/C when it's 105 outside and niether is anyone else in the real world. So how about solutions instead of criticism. And yes ..I have Lots of wind at my location..or why else would I bother... I was under the impression that the people here were helpful when possible. Sounds more like a bunch of malcontents to me..I'll fugure it out for myself. Thank you to the ONE positive response to my query.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 08:26:31 PM by Crusader »

ghurd

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 8059
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 12:51:56 AM »
Real world.


Four 10' dia windmills, running at near peak output 24/7/365, will put it about even for 2000KWh per month.


July (A/C running), 5:30PM (dinner in oven), and rinse a mixing bowl (water heater kicks on).


A battery bank large enough to supply or accept that kind of power without damaging it is huge, and probably costs more than the entire system budget you have in mind.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 12:51:56 AM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

TheCasualTraveler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2009, 06:24:40 AM »
Crusader,


The questions you ask show you have spent a comparatively short time studying RE. Please continue to read and once you actually take the first steps you will find what we all have that making your own electricity is expensive and buying from the grid is cheap.


""If you ever want the masses to "go wind", you have to make it where they don't have to change thier lives to do it.""


Wind is not and most likely never will be a cheap alternative for the masses to use to continue energy use and life as is. The first step in reducing your dependence on the "grid" is conservation which requires lifestyle changes. Alternatively, if the amount of money you spend to make your own electricity is of no consequence then powering a 2000 KWH home should be no problem.


Every question you ask is covered multiple times in this forum. Read on.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 06:24:40 AM by TheCasualTraveler »

Crusader

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 07:50:27 AM »
Much more constructive comments this time..Thank You. Ordered the homebrew book a few days back(two Dans). i'll read it through and see what info is in there. My idea was a electric forklift batt pack. Outback invert/contrllr which is expandable. but it says it has a controller built in..so does that mean I don't need a separate charge controller?..Hmmmm. will need a large dump load too. hot water? Or can I put it into the grid for electric credit? Outback makes a grid interactive but is that what I'm looking for..so many questions..so much time. Just would like to get it right the first time.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 07:50:27 AM by Crusader »

Janne

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
  • Country: fi
  • Turbiini
    • My image gallery
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2009, 08:59:22 AM »
I don't get it. You start nagging about people not being friendly and not providing solutions? The message Ron wrote imho had very good solutions in lowering you electric bills, and the same goes on for the research part.


Or is it just that saying things straight is just out of fashion?

« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 08:59:22 AM by Janne »
Nothing's as easy as drilling a hole in the wrong place

richhagen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1597
  • Country: us
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 01:37:48 AM »
Hi Crusader, I would recommend reading up on the subjects of the questions that you have.  There is usually more than one way to skin a cat, and you have to figure out what will work for you.  If it is grid interactive, and you do not need battery backup, then you will likely find that option to be of lower cost per KWH sold or used, although you may find implementing it without batteries more tricky without batteries for a home built wind turbine.  Given your monthly consumption, it will take quite an investment to approach your monthly usage energy amount in generation.  If you want backup power for when the utility power is out, then you will have to figure out which circuits you need to back up, and for how long, and then figure out the size of batteries that you need.  You can probably overcome part of the need for careful design of your system by buying or building more generation than necessary, but I would not recommend that.  


As was previously pointed out, conserving an additional KWH of energy is generally much cheaper than generating the power on a microgeneration scale.  Most U.S. homes use about 75% of their energy consumption for climate control, so insulation and smart decisions there can make a significant impact on consumption, and hence the amount of generation needed.  


Do not confuse conservation with austerity.  Most homes in the U.S. could significantly reduce the energy required to run them if they simply added additional insulation and switched to energy efficient lighting and appliances, without effecting the lifestyle at all.  With a bit of additional conservation, and a very slight impact on lifestyle, such as turning things off when not in use, and using programable thermostats, additional benefits could be obtained.  If accomplishing significant energy savings actually required going without a bath, or cooking your food, then we probably would not see much conservation.  The folks on here that I a have visited with who actually live off grid still bathe regularly (well mostly anyway) and cook their food.  They just don't watch 5 hours of TV a night and probably don't run much AC (because it uses large amounts of energy which they just don't have the ability to generate)  They accomplish a mostly normal lifestyle using a tiny fraction of the energy for their housing than I do.  In your case, you will still have the grid for what energy you need which you do not generate.  


In your original post, you state how you want to use the RE power when it is available and utility power when it is not.  Many modern inverters have the ability to be set up to run that way.  Certainly the Xantrex XW and SW series as well as the Outback FX series of inverters generally have this function.  


Most of the Outback inverters do have an integrated charger, but that is for charging the batteries from the utility power.  You will find that you will still need a controller for your solar, or in place of that, a means to switch (divert) the generated power to another use once the batteries are charged, and for wind a similar diversion scheme.  Even if you are selling all of your surplus back to the utility, you will likely find that you still need diversion for wind for the case of when the utility power is out and you have a surplus.  


Again I would reiterate reading this site and other sources of information before you plunk down a huge amount of resources so that you have realistic expectations of what you can accomplish and knowledge that what you purchase or build will perform as you desire.  One of the regulars on here had a quote on his signature line which I am reminded of now.  "Adventure is bad planning"  while I think it will be an adventure either way, with a good plan it will likely yield more predictable and favorable results.  


Good luck with your system however you choose to build it, and have fun with the project.  Rich

« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 01:37:48 AM by richhagen »
A Joule saved is a Joule made!

Crusader

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: newbie needs help
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 02:23:44 PM »
Thank You Rich..alot of useful information that I can use. I've been studying the xantrex and outback units extensively. Grid-tie seems awfully painful so now considering off grid with a redstone diesel for wind shortfalls. UL16HC batts look good too. Probably go 48V system as it would use smaller wiring. Thanks again, Greg.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 02:23:44 PM by Crusader »