Author Topic: Dual rotor results  (Read 1065 times)

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ejl7007

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Dual rotor results
« on: May 09, 2009, 12:11:47 AM »
To all you guys out there.  I have a setup of an 18" diameter 1/2" thick steel disc mounted with 16 neos 4"x1"x1".  The stator is 1" thick and has 12 coils @ 45 turns each wired with 3 strands of #14 awg.  The distance between the rotor and the stator is 1/16" apart.

An ac motor connected to the shaft with a variable ac transformer spins the shaft at various speeds. The stator is jerry rigged and each phase is individualy rectified with 35 Amp, 50 Volt bridge recvtifiers.  At 120 rpm I get an open voltage of 13.5 - 13.8 VDC and @ 200 rpm the voltage jumps to 30 VDC.  I attached a steel disc 18" diameter 1/2" thick on the other end of the stator as a plain return flux disc, at a distance of 1/4".  Now at 120 rpm I read 18.5 VDC and at 200 rpm The voltmeter read 42 VDC.  An increase of 5 VDC and 12 VDC at 120 rpm and 200 rpm respectively.  I can only imagine how much more power I will extract if I purchase more magnets and take full advantage of the dual rotor set up.  

   Now....Before I attached the second steel plate I decided to run some tests.  I connected the leads from the rectifiers to a 12 V 12 AH gel battery as well as a 200 watt Inverter.  I hooked a 40 watt cd player and 60 watt light buld (total 100 watts) and checked my battery levels with a voltmeter.  Within a minute or so, the battery voltage started to drop, so I tried to increase the speed of the ac motor.  I noticed that the rpms on the genny didn't increase, but the torque did.  In other words the ac motor kept turning the shaft at about 120 rpm.  It could not go any faster, but it was turning with a lot more torque.  I noticed that the battery was charging steadily even though I was extracting 100 watts from it, to power the cd player and the 60 watt light bulb.  However, after about 20 minutes or so, the motor turned itself off. (It has an overload protection switch)  It was extremely hot.  I'll have to wait a couple of hours or so for it to cool down.  It is a Leeson motor, rated at 1/2 horsepower.  Is my genny not producing enough power?  Was the load on it so much that caused the motor to stop functioning?  With no load attached, the motor can spin the shaft of my alternator at around 450 rpm.  But with a load of 100 watts it struggles at 120 rpm for about 20 minutes.  What gives?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 12:11:47 AM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: Dual rotor results
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2009, 12:56:29 AM »
  " Now....Before I attached the second steel plate I decided to run some tests.  I connected the leads from the rectifiers to a 12 V 12 AH gel battery as well as a 200 watt Inverter.  I hooked a 40 watt cd player and 60 watt light buld (total 100 watts) and checked my battery levels with a voltmeter.  Within a minute or so, the battery voltage started to drop, so I tried to increase the speed of the ac motor.  I noticed that the rpms on the genny didn't increase, but the torque did.  In other words the ac motor kept turning the shaft at about 120 rpm.  It could not go any faster, but it was turning with a lot more torque.  I noticed that the battery was charging steadily even though I was extracting 100 watts from it, to power the cd player and the 60 watt light bulb. "


I wouldn't take the 40w of the cd player as an accurate figure but that doesn't matter.


I assume this is a standard ac induction motor but am not sure if it is single phase or 3 phase. In either case these motors are not suited to variable speed operation with reduced voltage and if single phase then I am a bit surprised that it works at all unless it is a fixed capacitor machine, if it was capacitor start then the starting switch would hold the starting capacitor in circuit and this may work at such low voltage but normally it would blow the capacitor.


Your alternator is doing exactly the same to your drive motor as it would do to the turbine prop. With such a big alternator and reasonably high efficiency the thing just wants to run at constant speed above battery cut in volts. Any attempt to raise the speed will just push more amps into the battery so the power input will go up basically as the current, with little rise in speed or volts.


Your motor ( unless fitted with some gearbox) will want to run at some much higher speed depending on the number of poles and you will be running it in stall below pull out point on its normal characteristic. It will never develop more than a fraction of its full load torque and it will only develop a tiny fraction of its half HP even though you are grossly overloading it.


Probably the nominal 100W you got out of the alternator is pretty reasonable under those conditions. You could hand crank it at that speed with significantly more hp than your motor can produce stalled.


If you try with the second disc in place then your motor will stall even more and you will have even less in the way of power out at the lower speed.


It seems as though your alternator is fine but testing with an induction motor on reduced volts is not very practical. Even with some other type of motor that doesn't pull out and stall you will only get a small % of the rated hp if you run it at reduced speed. If intended for 1500rpm and you run it at 150 rpm you will reduce the hp to 1/10.  In reality you have done very well but the motor will be grossly overloaded and hence the thermal trip has operated.


Flux

« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 12:56:29 AM by Flux »

ejl7007

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Re: Dual rotor results
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2009, 11:32:05 AM »
Thank you Flux.  The AC motor that I used is officially out of commission.  It was a capacitor start motor, and I don't know how to go about fixing it...And you are right about the torque.  At lower speeds the torque is also decreased.  I will try to hand crank it tomorrow and test the output only this time I will connect 100 Watt light bulbs.  Since my inverter is only 200 watts I will have to get a bigger one. I will post some pictures so that You guys can see what I am going through.


Thank you Sir!!!

« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 11:32:05 AM by ejl7007 »