Author Topic: Radial flux alternator question for Flux  (Read 5868 times)

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angus

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Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« on: January 10, 2010, 05:47:30 AM »
Hi Flux (et all) and all the best for the new year.

  A while ago (May 20 2007) you posted about your preference for a slotless stator

  whith overlapping coils wound in the air gap- similar to the SWWP alternator.

  I am (seriously) considering the construction of an AWP type RF alternator -      however the laminations and in particular the pressing of the slots is of concern.

  Do you have any info or links to the smooth slotless stator you have alluded to

 and/or any guide as to its fabrication and winding - I do have my own toolroom and press facilities.


Regards


Angus  (The older I get ,the better I was).

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 05:47:30 AM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2010, 11:23:18 AM »
I don't know how to post pictures here any more but with a bit of luck I have managed to upload two images to my files.


Try looking for Radial jpg and radial 1 jpg.


The first is a slotless alternator using an inner rotating magnet, the second is the winding for a drum type where the magnets rotate outside the stator.


You should be able to see the laminated core and the 2 shapes of coils needed to do the overlap. You can do it as a 2 layer diamond winding if you prefer or you can do it as a diamond mush winding and just squeeze the end connections down over the wend of the core out of the way somewhere.


It becomes tricky to wind if you get the coils much over 1/4" thick so it is best to work with air gaps of about 3/8" or less. With a radial with decent bearings you should be able to get 1/4" thick coils in a 5/16" air gap but if you go up to 3/8" you still can manage with fairly thin magnets.


I used curved neos about 1/4" thick, they were the wrong curvature for the stator but were cheap ( ex voice coil motors I believe).


Standard rectangular blocks would be fine and 3/8 to 1/2" would again do well. The normal 2 x 1 x 1/2 should make a nice machine.


There is no force tending to throw the magnets off with an outer drum type and the magnet drum gives a considerable measure of weather protection, i have not had the magnet corrosion problems I have had with axials.


The iron loss drag is negligible and it can't cog so start up is good. Cooling is way better than a dual rotor as you have direct thermal transfer to the core. With neo I am not sure slots are beneficial, you get tooth saturation with gap flux much over 600mT and you can get those sort of gap flux densities or more in this slotless design with very much lower iron loss. The things are resistance dominated with no signs of reactance limiting under normal working conditions.


Flux

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 11:23:18 AM by Flux »

TomW

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 12:12:28 PM »



There you go, Flux.


Tom

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 12:12:28 PM by TomW »

Flux

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 01:31:39 PM »
Thanks Tom you computer genii never cease to amaze me.


The second machine is wound in the same way except that the windings are stuck on the inside of a laminated ring, more difficult to do than the drum type.. I wouldn't have chosen this way except that I had a magnet rotor from an industrial exciter and it is probably Samarium Cobalt as it was about before neo was commonly available.


The stator was wound as two separate star circuits for series parallel connection hence the 6 leads.


The drum machine was wound this way as well because at 24v it would have meant very thick wire to handle the current.


The original intention was series parallel load connection ( similar to star delta) but both ended up feeding two bridge rectifiers in parallel and a boost converter matched the low wind speed.


Flux

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 01:31:39 PM by Flux »

ghurd

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 02:27:08 PM »
Hi Flux,

I am curious about the outside diameter of the pictured alternators.

They look like monsters.

Over 1000W or 2000W?

G-
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 02:27:08 PM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

Flux

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 01:26:19 AM »
The first one is about 12" diameter over the magnet drum and does about 2kW at 400 rpm.


The second one is smaller and is about 10" dia overall, this does about 1kW at 600 rpm. You gain a lot more space for the magnets by placing them outside the stator.


Flux

« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 01:26:19 AM by Flux »

oztules

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 11:49:20 PM »
The easy bit is finding a stator to use.... the hard part is finding a drum to use with it.


It is simple to make your own drum with no tools other than a hacksaw..... it looks like this.








These steel strips came from old cross arm poles from the power company over here.





......oztules

« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 11:49:20 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

Flux

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 01:55:48 AM »
If you have to use rectangular magnets then this method is likely better than machining a round drum and milling flats for the magnets.


I made my drums by rolling steel plate but I had to mill curved pockets for those curved magnets as they were far too curved for the correct diameter.


Hugh published plans for a drum machine but there was always problems finding the parts. I wouldn't suggest anyone tackle a radial machine without facilities and considerable experience but it certainly is easier than messing about with motor conversions, that's a real labour of love and I can't see why people do it unless they are afraid of winding.


The big pain with the radial drum machine is that it has to fit, you can make a mess of an axial and just increase the air gap and it will still work fairly well.


I actually got the coils to fit on my attempts but there is a strong case for building the stator then making the magnet drum to suit.


Nice machine OZ.


Flux

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:55:48 AM by Flux »

TomW

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 04:26:39 AM »
Oz;


Now that is downright sneaky!


Great idea, especially as flux says for flat magnet blocks.


Thanks for the share.


Tom

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 04:26:39 AM by TomW »

jlt

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Re: Radial flux alternator question for Flux
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 02:13:55 AM »
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 02:13:55 AM by jlt »