Author Topic: Pot and SSR as charge controller?  (Read 2841 times)

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(unknown)

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Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« on: March 05, 2010, 09:38:12 AM »
The question:


I have a solid-state relay that switches up to 25 amps of 24-380VAC, from 3-32VDC input. Couldn't the voltage drop across a potentiometer be set to activate the 3v input at, say 15v on the battery bank, switching on a heater powered by an inverter, thus preventing the battery from overcharging? Zero hysteresis is fine for the SSR, and the heater, right? Would it be a problem for the inverter? In which case, just use a SSR with DC output and draw the dump current directly from the battery.... (It's just that I already have these AC SSRs.)


Or, put another way, what's the dead-simplest circuit a noob could build to dump excess load? There's got to be something easier than the diagrams I've seen. Below $30 in parts, easier trumps cheaper.


Or, am I on the wrong track, should I just be buying a ready-made unit? Looking at the specs of some units makes it seem like there is more to controlling charging than just avoiding overcharging. So I'm lost there too. If I buy something, I'd like to be able to hook up multiple wind gene's and PV's, say, in the 60amp range, but there are too many to choose from and I have no idea what I should expect to spend. Searching the board yields a dizzying amount of info too. Thanks for any help, Paul.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 09:38:12 AM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 11:14:55 AM »
I believe you are not quite really understanding how the SSRs function.

They don't quite work that way.


If it did work that way, Zero hysteresis will play havoc on the inverter...

If the inverter was being even moderately loaded.

I know a guy having issues with a similar setup with a medium hysteresis and about a 1 second delay between cycles.


There is almost no arguable advantage to a SSR in a 12V system.  Mosfets are better.


There can be "more to controlling charging than just avoiding overcharging",

but at this stage, with an Ametek, your main controller concern is just avoiding overcharging.  And maybe an occasional manual equalization charge.


Did you see this?  (yea- it's mine so the guys who already know can skip loading it)

I still believe it is about as easy as it gets, with any kind of adjustments.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/8/24/172521/889


"easier trumps cheaper".  And 60A.

That puts you straight into the Two TS-45 class.


"Below $30 in parts" will not buy a suitable 60A dump load.

Expect a decent dump load to cost as much as a controller, or more.


Could be a good idea to start with something like my kit, until you get a bit more experience, and have a better idea of how the system with progress.

Then later go straight to a 'big controller', with a Known name brand and all the bells&whistles.


Do not get suckered into the relay based stuff on ebay, et al.

G-

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 11:14:55 AM by ghurd »
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neeaar

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 12:09:36 PM »
Thanks for the help!


Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest $30 including a dump load. Just an example of how at some level, I value convenience over price. As a dump load, I was thinking of a water heater, as a separate cost, and I wouldn't need to add more than say a 10amp dump until I have more generation, but if I'm buying a controller, I want to be able to go that way.


I had seen your controller, and it looks great, but I was a bit confused about a couple things. For one, do I need a second one configured as LVD to "prevent a load from damaging a battery due to excessive use and low voltages"? Won't most inverters cut out below 10.5v or so? Or is it other loads I need to worry about? For now I'm only planning on using an inverter. As for the dump controller, what kind of current can it handle? Or can it trigger a relay that would control a bigger current? And what's wrong with relays?


Which brings me to the stuff on eBay. Ones I've looked at are Aeolus Harvester, Power Planted,  Windy Nation, Coleman Air, and Be A Wind Hog (http://shop.ebay.ca/superstore2k/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=50).


So, these are waste of time?


To sum up, with your controller I would need 1 blocking diode for each generator, but just one controller on the batter bank, and a dump load? And if I need more amps? If I can understand how to get the job done, I'll be putting in an order soon. Thanks ghurd!

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 12:09:36 PM by neeaar »

opo

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 12:29:32 PM »


Maybe reading this will help you understand Ghurd's controller:


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2009/11/22/19515/881


The diagram there is what I based my dump controller from. I do not know much electronics, so I followed that tread carefully and managed to build my own.


It is not that complicated. Follow that post, specially woof comments and links to his two stage dump controller in case you need to grow you power production.


Cheers,


Octavio

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 12:29:32 PM by opo »
http://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=opo Check my apps aFoil and aFoilSim on android market.

neeaar

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2010, 12:34:22 PM »
Answered a few of my own questions. Each IRFZ44N can dump 6 amps. And more can be added  just by connecting their G pin to the same n-fet gate? Is there a limit to the number of IRFZ44N or similar that you can add? I also take it that the dump current as controlled by this circuit would not be suitable for running a dc pump, just heaters or some other resistive load, eh? Thanks for humouring the noob questions.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 12:34:22 PM by neeaar »

ghurd

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2010, 01:06:52 PM »
"For one, do I need a second one configured as LVD"

Yes.

No matter which controller you use, there will be a 'second controller' in it if it also does LVD.

And 11.9V is generally considered 'dead', though it depends on the load and battery capacity.

That 10.5V thing is to keep from ruining the battery or inverter the first time it goes too low.


"As for the dump controller, what kind of current can it handle?"

My controller?  Practically infinite.

Just keep adding individual fets and individual loads.

There is a time or power when a full-blown bells&whistles controller makes more sense.


"can it trigger a relay that would control a bigger current?"

Sure.

Two choices:

Make it slow and sloppy and not much of a controller.

Or

Let it be accurate like was intended.


"And what's wrong with relays?"

They require making it slow and sloppy and not much of a controller.

OR

The relay beats itself to death in a Very short time.


Standard $3 car relays are rated for 40A?  And ebay stuff is rated in 40A increments?

Some of those controllers offer extra car relays to expand capacity?

Some offer extra-fancy 50A relays.


In short, a relay is designed to operate slow enough to see, and maybe only 2-3-10 times per Minute. Some more.

Factory controllers like the TS-60 operate at 300 times per Second. (the 110V in your wall sockets only operate at 60 times per second).

And 300Hz is 18,000 times a minute.

'Bring a knife to a gun fight'?  Relays are like bringing curse words and angry looking eye contact to a gun fight.


"with your controller I would need 1 blocking diode for each generator,"

Yes, like any controller.


"but just one controller on the battery bank"

Yes, like any decent controller.


I am NOT saying my controller is the best for a 60A system, and I am saying something from a Known Name Brand with bells&whistles is often better.

I AM saying a majority of the name brands only available on ebay or their own personal website is inferior to something with a real name brand.


Some of that stuff does more harm than good.

G-

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 01:06:52 PM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

ghurd

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2010, 01:14:58 PM »
"I also take it that the dump current as controlled by this circuit would not be suitable for running a dc pump, just heaters or some other resistive load"


No decent controller will claim to be capable of operating a DC pump.


Some go so far as to specifically exclude light bulbs.


The IRFZ44N fets can be paralleled for a larger load.  It gets a bit complicated.

Need to include a gate resistor for each fet, and greatly reduce the rating (add more fets).


G-

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 01:14:58 PM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

Opera House

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Re: Pot and SSR as charge controller?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 01:15:41 AM »
 "switches up to 25 amps of 24-380VAC"  Not sure how you planned to hook it up.  If connected to DC it would turn on and never turn off.  I do use an inverter as a dump load.  A LM341 (at least I think at 4am) closes a small relay, that operates a 5 minute timer, and that turns on an inverter.  If you don't include a timer function with an inverter you will run into problems.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 01:15:41 AM by Opera House »