Author Topic: Smart car  (Read 445 times)

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windstuffnow

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Smart car
« on: January 12, 2005, 02:21:08 AM »
  Any legal eagles out there?  I'd like to purchase a car, the problem is there not certified in the US... especially diesels.  As we all know anything that is less than 5000 lbs and efficient isn't allowed in the US.  My thoughts were to have some one in Canada purchase the car, drive it over and resell it to me.  This way there is no dealer/customer relation and it removes the responsibility from them selling it to me directly.


  I'm not sure this would work as it would have a canadian title and would have to be transfered into my name for plates and insurance.  


  Any other ideas or comments that could be helpful in getting the car into the US?  The dealer is located in British Columbia.


  Zap is going to import them, the high end models, toward the end of this year and there is already a waiting list of over 8000 but they're only going to import the gas versions.  EPA has approved them for import but Zap has to do some retro-fitting to get them approved for US use.  I would prefer the diesel model but will wait for the gas version if I absolutely have to.


  I've been following them for quite some time now, I saw one on a CNN and have been trying to find out more about them ever since.  The mercedes dealers will be handling the Smart SUV for the american version in 2006 but the fortwo, forfour and the roadster will follow.


Have Fun

Windstuff Ed

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 02:21:08 AM by (unknown) »
Windstuff Ed

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2005, 11:12:19 PM »
Smart Cars are pretty cool....and they sure get awesome mileage. But since I live way up in the mountains, got to have good ground clearance, power and 4WD. And the lyrics to a great old Jim and Jesse McReynolds truckin' song come to mind....


There's a diesel on my tail

makin' 90 miles per hour

my reflection in my mirror's mighty pale

I can hear Saint Peter callin'

I can almost smell the flowers

Can this compact take the impact?

there's a diesel on my tail...


;~)


DANF


Hope you are able to procure a smart car and give us all a report!

« Last Edit: January 11, 2005, 11:12:19 PM by ADMIN »

windstuffnow

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2005, 07:29:10 AM »
  I suppose a large truck going 60+ mph were to impact any other vehicle reguardless of size there would be very little left to either of them.  Crash tests are performed at 30 mph or less so your safe up to that point... they don't mention anything higher than that.  So when your zooming down the hiway at 70 mph you've exceeded the save zone by 45 mph.  I don't think anyone has yet to tell the public that no matter what you drive your not going to be 100% safe unless you put around town at 25 mph and everyone else does too.

  If it's my time to go, its not going to matter if I'm walking or driving 50,000 lb tank.  At least I'll feel like I was a tiny part of the solution and not part of the problem.

  I'm not totally down on SUV's I believe they have thier place as well as all the work horse vehicles but it just doesn't make sense to me for short trips to the store which is 90% of my driving, 5% I use a tractor to do my work and the other 5% is hauling parts and pieces with my truck.

   Also, I think the little care looks pretty cool and would be fun to drive.  My last "street Kart" was a 62 mg midget, not real safe but boy was it a fun drive ( it also got 49 mpg with 2 webbers ).  I think its great that we at least have the choice now.


Have Fun

Windstuff Ed

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 07:29:10 AM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

monte350c

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2005, 07:44:54 AM »
I had a couple of the original Austin Mini's - one of which had a hot 1275 with a Weber carb on it. It was a ton of fun and got over 40 mpg.


When I'm driving I try to look for the proverbial escape route just in case something happens up ahead. Because that car was so small, there were a lot of options about where it would fit in an emergency.


I would agree that a quart of milk is hardly a good load for an SUV.


Ted.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 07:44:54 AM by monte350c »

ghurd

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2005, 07:49:52 AM »
Well, it has been done.


A friend of mine bought a '72(?) Chevy car in the early '80s, from a guy who moved here from Canada.  The Canadian guy had some title troubles when he moved here, and there were a few more when my friend bought it.  He was driving it right away, but there were lots of forms that needed eventually completed If I remember right.


But the biggest problem was parts. From spark plugs to exhaust system, nothing seemed the same, even the front bumper!  Parts books and stores were useless.  Given the vintage, possibility most of the problems were with early 'smog' controls for the US.


G-

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 07:49:52 AM by ghurd »
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troy

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2005, 08:10:09 AM »
Hi Ed,


They are really cool, and of course the mileage is spectacular.  A friend of mine drove one in France.  He said it (a gasburner) was zippy.  He also said you could park "sideways" in a parallel parking spot no problem.


On to the relevant info>  I have imported two cars from canada.  If they go by the book, you need a letter from the manufacturer that states that it passes all appropriate EPA requirements for the US.  So that's bad. There's a U.S. customs website that has info about what cars pass pretty much automatically. I'd bet the diesel smart car is not on there.


Not that I am suggesting or recommending this, but with scanners and word processors, it wouldn't be technically difficult to forge a document that fulfilled that EPA thing.  I think that would be obeying the spirit of the law, though definitely not the letter of the law.


On the other hand, the local people at the Dept of Motor Vehicles were pretty clueless about the whole process, and there's a decent chance you could slip through the cracks. If there's more than one office, you could try several, just show up with the title and the checkbook and play dumb.


From the, "Your mileage may vary" dept.


troy

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 08:10:09 AM by troy »

nothing to lose

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 09:29:15 AM »
Probably not a good option, but as a last resort if you have to and really want the car bad enough you  might be able to get a builders type title.


Take in a bunch of receipts for various parts, engine, body parts, suspension parts etc.. and have the car inspected and titled as home built. Various states are easier or harder than others to get this done. Some of my old friends (hot rod builders, custom cars) used to do it alot. Some states are as easy as show a box of receipts (they may or may not check engine serail numbers) and if the lights all work and the brake pedal feels solid and correct you get a builders title for it. Other States may want to check each nut and bolt for correct torque and other nutty things and your better off to just travel to a different state.


 If you go a custom built title route check into insureance first maybe. You might need to insure as a hot rod or other specailty class with a company that does show car type insurenace which some aren't much worse than any other insruance company and some are.

 Back when I was more into everything and driving stuff so often I didn't bother with insureance, wasn't mandatory then. Now I still have a few ways to slip by (legally) for the occasional vehicle.


 There are various ways, just rather you need to go to such extremes or feel it would be worthwhile or not is the question.


 If nothing else get a dealers liscence, run on dealer tags and dealers lot insurance :)

 Big hassle and expense, but for some of us probably worthwhile! That is what I will be doing soon. Too many vehicles to insure each one and I can only drive one at a time anyway. So one for wife, one for me, on normal insurance registered and such. All the rest will be drivin on dealer plates. No title fees, No personal property taxes, No registration ($25 or more each), No insurance per vehicle ($100-$150 each), just slap a tag on anything and go and perfectly legal! Cuts currant insurance bill by about $600 per year, cost is about $1,000 per year for dealer insurance and $200 to state for liscence and tags. So I only pay out about $600 more per year than now (actually alot less since I won't be payng registrations and other stuff also), drive anything anytime, and buy wholesale from other dealers and auctions.


For me I figure this is worthwhile. Since I have over 30 vehicles already, most are ready to roll or only need very minor things like batteries, I can drive a different car everyday of the month. Anything I build I won't have to worry about titles and inspections for awhile. And If I make about $400 profit selling a car or 2 durring the year I actually break even with what I am paying out now anyway.


The headache of doing a little paper work for the dealer lisence each year is offset by all the headaches I get rid of with individul car registrations, inspections, etc...

 Not an option for everyone, but worth it for some of us :)

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 09:29:15 AM by nothing to lose »

windstuffnow

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2005, 09:37:44 AM »
   My neighbor and friend has a huge crew cab pickup and he uses it for camping (5th wheel), hauling his race car and loading wood for winter heat.  These are all worthy tasks for the truck then he commutes back and forth to work as well as small tasks in a 4cyl S10 pickup... makes sense to me.

   I've been looking for a donar vehicle for about a year now without much luck... I'm kind of picky.  I'd like to build a hybrid but I could be swayed to put the project off if the Smart car was in the driveway.


Lots of fun!

Windstuff Ed

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 09:37:44 AM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

windstuffnow

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2005, 09:55:24 AM »
  Back when I was building street rods I'd go to swap meets and pick up titles of cars that looked very similar to the car that I built. The title and insurance was never a problem.


  I can see alot of stumbling blocks for bringing one in.  As long as parts can be ordered doing the work isn't a problem.  Insurance could be a problem because their so hell-bent on making money they would either charge a fortune for it or simply deny you.  For the money I've spent on full coverage I could have purchased 2 of the same vehicle and put PLPD on the one I'm driving used the other for parts... such a rip off... I get sick of paying for other peoples accidents, big buildings, advertizing and wages just to drive my truck.


  I'll keep my options open for awhile yet but at this point if the opportunity presents an opening at a reasonable cost I'll jump on it!


Have Fun

Windstuff Ed

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 09:55:24 AM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

bob g

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2005, 11:01:22 AM »
Ed:


i sympathize (sp) with your plite(sp)


i have tried to get canadian trucks across the boarder to the US and titled here, unless the vehicle has the US DOT sticker affixed to the cab it can't be done.


i would agree the builders title may be your only option here.


or just build your own, you seem very handy to me :)


bob g

« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 11:01:22 AM by bob g »
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skravlinge

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2005, 12:48:09 AM »
At  Jan 12  I got the power back, since the worse storm in 100 years.

Yesterday I  got a 4- wheel "car", its a two seat car, which counts as moped here.  You do not need a car license, just pass a elementary test you know some about the traffic. It makes 50 km/h and the engine is a  37  cubice centimeters one cylinder diesel.  You can go on all roads but not highways.The  car  has glassfiber cover (will not rost).

I tested it in a heavy uphill road, it makes it (due to diesel engine) but slow down to 30 km/h.

I went 50 km on a liter fuel. It has no tax, the insurance is $ 300 a year. I do not think it is possible to go cheaper. Its a 2001 model and cost me  3000 dollars. Do you have such in USA and Canada?

« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 12:48:09 AM by skravlinge »

ghurd

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2005, 06:18:44 AM »
No.  What is it?  Are there photos on the web?

50km/h, about 31mph, would be much too slow for traffic here in the states.

G-
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 06:18:44 AM by ghurd »
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skravlinge

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2005, 07:16:17 AM »
http://www.micro-car.co.uk/themc1car.htm

http://www.mopedbil.nu/utforande.shtml

http://www.piaggio.se/indexobjekt/faktablad_Casalini_minilb_5.pdf

http://www.importinvest.se/

http://www.torslandacykel.com/microcar.html


The first link is in english, the other in serdish, but ypu will see pictures!


They are a bit slow, and we never use it on highways, it is allways possible to use smaller roads, and in urban areas 50 km/h is the speed limit here.


and here is a pic of my moped car.



« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 07:16:17 AM by skravlinge »

DanB

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2005, 01:33:50 PM »
How about an old BMW Isetta?  I wonder how those were for economy... there seems to be quite a few around, I suspect parts are not too difficult for those.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 01:33:50 PM by DanB »
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windstuffnow

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2005, 04:20:54 PM »
  Dan, I used to have one back in the early 80's.  I haven't seen one in years!  My son when he was 5 used to take turns with his playmate pushing each other up and down the driveway.  It was a pretty cool car. It had a 2 stroke engine that wasn't what I would call efficient and I think I get better gas mileage with my S10 than that did. Certainly wouldn't want to get hit in that thing though.. it was truly a death trap.  I had a Honda AN600 sedan also super fun to drive, great gas mileage.  I found a Fiat laying on its roof in an abandoned parking lot a long time ago and it was offered to me for the towing.  It had a twin cylinder engine in the rear and ran like a top, a little raged looking on the outside but another fun car to drive.


Those were the good ole days... gas was cheap and I drove the little beasts although I had my fun cars that guzzeled the fuel measured in gallons per mile... 69 Dodge challenger with a 440 4spd dual 4's, Modified open top roadster 409 tri-power... built and broke them weekly... can't afford that anymore..


Lots of fun tho...

Windstuff Ed

« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 04:20:54 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

troy

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2005, 10:42:58 AM »
Hey Ed,


It occurred to me that the Smart Cars ARE imported into the U.S., just in very limited markets.  Specifically New York and LA.  So maybe they are EPA approved.  It would be worthwhile to track down a dealer in the US.


Good luck and let us know.


troy

« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 10:42:58 AM by troy »

windstuffnow

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2005, 12:21:11 PM »
  Hi Troy,

    Zap is the local dealer at this point until the Mercede's dealers start in 2006.  Chrysler said they werent' going to bring in the "fortwo's" because there wasnt a market for them.  That being said Zap has a waiting list of those that put a deposit on them of over 8000 people so far.  I could put my 1000.00 deposit on one and wait for 9 months to a year to get it but I'd like one a bit sooner if possible.  Also, zap wants to bring in mostly the upper end models (more expensive)as per my phone conversation with them which was another deterant.

     Kind of makes you wonder about the people in charge of making decisions for the people of the US of what we want and what their going to try to pawn off on us.  If zap has sold over 8000 of them before their even here I think that says alot about what people want and would like.  Their still pushing horsepower and poor fuel economy and they wonder why they can't sell last years production.  The big 3 in the US are also wondering why their sales are falling off loosing to toyota and honda as well as some of the other imports... They say "buy american" but you almost cant find them anymore... even harley has started outsourcing...


Go figure

Windstuff Ed

« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 12:21:11 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

ghurd

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2005, 08:50:05 AM »
It seems like every time they build a good simple little car with good mpg...

They Improve it year after year until it is a big fancy gas hog.

Look at the old Toyota Camry and Corolla, and the new ones.

Same with Geo's. Bigger and bigger until they lost the market they went after.

I think the 3 cyl Metro would have worked if the quality were a little higher, like having at least one button or switch that didn't fall off in 6 months.


What ever happened to the Metropolitian?  lol.


G-

« Last Edit: January 15, 2005, 08:50:05 AM by ghurd »
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troy

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2005, 02:22:48 PM »
The nicest thing I can say about marketing gurus is that I believe they have a fundamentally different world view than I have.  At the root of marketing is the idea that we can just make and market and sell more stuff forever.  Any rational person will tell you that can't work forever.  All the other things I could say about marketing would probably get me censored so we'll just leave it where it lies.


Good luck and have fun!


troy

« Last Edit: January 15, 2005, 02:22:48 PM by troy »

thunderhead

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2005, 09:21:26 AM »
If that is the sort of performance you want, have you considered the little Reva?


http://www.revaindia.com/


If you want something a bit bigger and faster, why not go to France and buy a Renault Kangoo Electrique?

« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 09:21:26 AM by thunderhead »

skravlinge

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2005, 01:51:20 PM »
I think as president of the Swedish Speed- Blind  Society the perforance of the car is what I need. It goes on a small amount of biodiesel . With 16 liters (full tank ) I go  750 km on it. A n electrical car have heavy batteries full of nasty stuff and needs recharging far before I run out of fuel. I told  somebody here to have a  race I using my car and he using his Volvo, the race was on 50 kilometers, he was waiting for me at the end and told me  " I come here  twenty minutes before you, how could you think you could beat me?". My answer was I have won, you have to go to your work and spend one hour of work to earn your 20 minutes.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2005, 01:51:20 PM by skravlinge »

stauffenberg

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2005, 06:41:32 PM »
Generally, there are only minor alterations required to bring a Canadian car up to U.S. standards.  However, this has to be done through a registered importer.  Normally the alterations involve only changing the odometer from kilometres to miles and changing some labels/decals.


BIG PROBLEMS however!!!!


Even when done through a registered importer, 95% of the time or better, these moronic clowns don't file all/any of the appropriate paperwork.  This means that the vehicle is still in the U.S. illegally even though you followed all of the rules and have no way of knowing.  This means it can be seized and you will have no recourse other than years of court cases trying to sue the importer, the government, and your insurance agent to get someone to cover the loss.  All of these people will be more culpable for the problem than you, but you will probably be the one who pays all the cost.


Since you will not be able to sell the car without committing fraud yourself (as I have just advised you of the problems, you would be liable to be sued by anyone you sold the car to, and quite rightly), you might as well simply go to court right now.  Sue the government and the automakers under NAFTA.  Generally, under NAFTA this type of double standard crap is not legal.  That doesn't stop the government from imposing it on the average Joe however (if you were a billion dollar multinational corporation you would have no problem, the government would roll over like a two dollar hooker for you.)


Many dealers in the U.S. will actually import vehicles from Canadian dealers (with all of the same problems mentioned above), especially when the Canadian dollar is very weak compared to the U.S. dollar.  They sell the vehicles cheaper than other dealers who don't import, and make more profit doing it.  The customer often never knows the vehicle was imported until a problem arises.  The automakers, and many dealers want to stop this and try to.  Of course under NAFTA they should not be allowed to.  This type of thing needs to be stopped.  Hopefully you have big pockets and yearn to go to court because I'd love to see these guys ripped apart.  Call your congressmen, demand action.  Call Daimler-Chrysler and curse them up and down.  Make their lives miserable enough and maybe their contempt for the consumer will diminish.  

« Last Edit: April 14, 2005, 06:41:32 PM by stauffenberg »

ghurd

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Re: Smart car
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2005, 08:06:23 AM »
On my recent trip to Canada I saw a lot of those 'Zap' cars.

At least a lot more than I expected. At least 10 around Ottawa just driving through.

I was going about 75MPH and one past me going 80~85MPH. That's nuts!

« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 08:06:23 AM by ghurd »
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