Author Topic: Protectionism & product security  (Read 317 times)

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iFred

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Protectionism & product security
« on: January 09, 2005, 03:37:32 PM »
Protectionism & product security


Everyone here knows for fact how I feel about this web site, and that I have always been open, honest and caring for it and the individuals within provided they do the same. This website is the result of free and open speech within the criteria of what would be considered for the good of the community and for the good of the people. We should always protect that spirit which created it and has given it life. It is the essence of why we are here in the first place and why this message board is fruitful and multiplies at an exponential rate.


Many ideas sometimes infringe in areas that would not be good for either the spirit or the common good, in which case the webmaster can step in and can fix the problem quietly and behind the scenes. They have the right to do so since they own it, but they also must adhere to the highest respects of the community and for the common good, they can not afford to be biased. They cannot afford to risk damaging the spirit or the common good for their own biased reasons when attempting to fix a problem if one exists.


As long as the intentions of the individual are good and honorable there is no reason to ban any message to the abyss to hide it away or move it in the hopes that it will simply disappear unless that message contains things that would harm the community or harm  the individuals within it. This spirit must be maintained and protected on this website or we going to loose it.


Thus, the spirit embodied in this website should never be converted or subjugated over the rights of the "individual" for the express and exclusive rights of a product - "ever". For doing so means that you are putting the rights of a product over the rights of an individual and for the principals of protectionism or product security, and that my dear friends is just plain wrong no matter how you splice it.


When the day comes that protectionism and/or product security is put in place for the exclusive rights of a product over the individual, we are toast!


Yesterday I posted an article regarding "Make Your Own Magnetic Fluid", I posted this under the topic of "homebrewed electricity" since we have no other categories which made any other sense to put it under. Would we have a topic like "everything else" or a topic like magnetism, I would have been more then happy to put it their. But we have limited topics here. Besides I felt that the topic of homebrewed electricity was more then adequate regarding the subject because there are so many things that can be done in respects to this interesting fluid it that it should be classified as a power producing element, since it can be used as such.


However, this twas not to be. This morning when I awoke and checked the board, I could not find the post because it was moved to the topic of "rants and opinions", so I posted a message in regards to this asking the question of why this was done. At the time I really didn't think about it, but then it started to naw on me, why would the webmaster consider this posting "a rant and opinion"????


Unless of coarse you are selling "magnetic fluid", then of coarse this did make sense.

If I am wrong then I humbly admit that I am wrong and have done so in the past. However, I really would like an explanation based upon all the above information and this post to express to me why this particular message was moved to the abyss and forgotten?


All I can say is that this is not the spirit that created this website. There was no infringement and there was no reason to move this post regarding that topic since it embodied the principals above as stated. There was nothing wrong with this post, so why was it moved?


I await your comments and posts in regards to this situation and to your view.


Thank you!

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 03:37:32 PM by (unknown) »

DanB

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2005, 10:45:33 AM »
Hi Fred.

Sorry about that... although Im not sure concern about 'protectionism and product security' is quite appropriate here.  To be honest - its very simple.


First - this is not a 'free speech' forum - we tried that, it didnt work.  With 3000 members we need to 'keep it clean' so to speak.


second - there are a few folks who have 'admin' power on this board.  Any one of them can move things around if they see fit, and we trust their judgement.  As you know - a while back, we 'dumped' the magnets/magnetism catagory in order to keep a bit more focus on 'renewable energy'... 'homebrew electricity' and 'things that work'.  We'll get a magnets/magnetism forum running again soon... but itll be separate.


I did not move your message, but I probably would've had I noticed it first because we 'try' to keep the 'homebrew electricity' part pretty focused and on topic - a lot of folks link directly to that catagory.  I suspect it was for this reason that your post was moved... no big deal really.  I dont feel that ferrofluid is terribly related to homebrew electricity.. but I understand if you disagree - you have the right to your opinion, and the right to express your opinion!   So I hope there are no hard feelings.  This has nothing to do with the fact that we 'sell' ferrofluid or that anyone is trying to 'hide' your posting there... its just that we dont have a 'magnets & magnetism' catagory here so there was really no good place to put it.  these days - it seems 'rants/opinion' is a bit of a 'catch all' - I think folks will see it there.


And - Ill reply to that posting soon.  I recently discovered the same fun effect - we were making up the stuff from toner and other liquids, it worked pretty well!


Have fun and hopefully you're not fretting about it all too much...

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 10:45:33 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

pexring

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2005, 12:51:04 PM »
I saw your post I-fred, but I see all the posts because I read them from the Front Page view.  I've visited this forum for a couple years now, and I don't think I've ever clicked on individual areas.  So as long as a post shows-up on the Front Page, I never notice under what topic a post is made too, nor would I ever notice if it got moved.  


Mark

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 12:51:04 PM by pexring »

picmacmillan

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2005, 02:30:28 PM »
hi fred....i usually look everywhere and read as many posts as i can...one thing is for sure is i always read yours...you always have very new and fresh ideas....i respect your opinion and from what i can see you always get alot of responces to your posts...i am certain that no-one would put you on the back burner, as your posts i have found are in no way offensive or confrontational to another member of this forum....i guess what i am saying is you have earned respect and i hope you don't take your post getting moved (or not) as a personal dig...now get back at it and find something new to get our wheels spinning  :D ...your friend pickster
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 02:30:28 PM by picmacmillan »

rotornuts

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2005, 02:39:01 PM »
Hey fred, I saw your post as well. In fact right now It's sitting fifth from the top in the everything view (my bookmark setting). Don't feel bad your posting was moved I had one totally erased and in hindsight I'm happy it was. As dan said with all the traffic, posts and ideas/opinions someone has to try and keep it organized.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 02:39:01 PM by rotornuts »

iFred

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2005, 03:39:46 PM »
Ah, I see my paranoia is still alive and working! GOOD- this keeps things level, ok, I accept your statement of having multi-admin's working to keep it clean, which is a  good think too. I have no problem with this then. You are honest about the stated intent and have no problems there. I think however that your going to need another topic areas for the more interesting stuff when it does come, and it will.


Putting everything under the "rants & opinions" area makes me feel sort of stupid because it is not under a category that it should be under or under any other area. The problem with magnets and magnetism only arose as a result of the free energy stuff, which was abolished for the most part, I don't think you have much to worry about in that area any further. How would you classify such stuff then? In all honesty we need other categories inside "homebrewed" such as "steam, heat, magnetism, hydraulics and hydrodynamics" because this is coming I assure you, if it is not apon you already.


Are we going to insult everyone that posts in these area's and put them all under "rants and opinions"?? Think about it, that's all I am asking. A code revision. We have the most diverse and most intelligent people on this board, lets not insult their intelligent's and bread further paranoia or mis-understanding as just happened!


Thank you.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 03:39:46 PM by iFred »

John II

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Re: Sister boards ?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2005, 07:21:47 PM »
Hello all. Many moons ago when I first discovered this forum I fell in love with it. Not because it contains cutting edge build it yourself PV's and wind generators, but because I discovered that it was one of the few forums where people really cared. People were willing to help people with a passion. It did not matter if it were a first time beginner or a seasoned pro with a couple of phd's stuck under his belt. I used to search all over the Internet for home grown electricity production information no matter from what unique source it had sprang from.


There is more to a forum than "nuts and bolts" there are trends, settings, dreams and future thought. Some of it is practical right now and some of it is perhaps in the future. I suspect Dreaming and future desire is what causes "nuts and bolts" to become born in the first place.


I appreciate DanB's labor of love and efforts for keeping this forum semi focused On home made A.E. in the first place. But there will always be "fringes" and these fringes I find important to keep dreams and hopes alive, and to broaden our concepts.


While you can't have the front page running for a week straight on subjects such as OU or the strange things magnets may do to your health, or how hard one really can pinch your fingers with one, or you found it has a unique ability to behave as a unique shock absorber that may have a myriad of usages including A.E. It would be destructive I think... to be on this board, yet I feel it's crucial not to be too far away. Such items do need to be accessed quickly and eaisly by folks on this board.


Because I'm not knowledgeable of this software, or even the effort and expenses it takes to keep a board operational, I may be suggesting something that is difficult or impossible. But if not, perhaps this would be a tangible and ultra helpful option.


Currently at the top of the front page we have two rows of menu options. There appears to be room for a third row. Why not on that third line, allow hyper links to other speciality forums that are setup identical to this forum, and run on the same server. Perhaps DanB could nominate at his best options net moderators for those forums to keep them from drifting from their subject matter. This way it wouldn't put too much stress on one individual. On those forums at the top of the home page should be the hyper link right back to this one and any other sister forums.


I'd like to see one titled something like " playing with magnets" or " magnets other interesting usages" etc. I for one would like to learn and hear more about this "magnetic fluid" who knows what kind of string of activities people might enjoy from learning about it ?


There were some serious people in here testing, building and reporting their results of both home brewed wind machines and OU. I'd like to be able to track and learn from their efforts of both items. Why can't we have one little line at the top that will let us land at a sister forum identical to this, that will allow that ?


I recently came across another forum that specialized on country living... you know after you pump the water with your wind machine, you might like to know how to plant a garden to put the water on. Anyhow, they might be delighted to add a hyper link to this forum for their people to learn about do it yourself electricity. A hyper link here could take folks here to there. Networking I guess at the click of your front page top link would help to keep each topic "on forum".


To me... in theory it sounds simple. Sister forums with the same wonderful format covering the broader topics that do truly at various levels interlink with each other and often indeed compliment each other. A click a way, not interfering with each other's front page topics. Is this not ideal ?


I'd love to hear what others have to say about this....


The down side is, for DanB we are talking about 2 or 3 identical forums, so 2 or 3 times the work, and I don't see how he keeps this one running so nicely ! But would it be possible for others to monitor, or even maintain these sister forums all highly complimenting each other ?


There are down sides to anything. You always have to balance the positives and the negatives. But I can see a lot of upsides to making -anyone feel at home- without being sent to the "rant bin" and often treated as a degenerate... or being told to get off just because they have discovered something or have a question that is not quite in the full context of the boards ideals and may not even be aware of it at the time.


To me.. Sister boards with identical format would be the ultimate. But at the worst, one could have at the top of the front page saying "can't find your topic ? then click here" this would take you to a page with a list of other forums non maintained or affiliate with this board, but with other closely linked topic themes.


However Sister boards would be the "sweet" way to go to keep OtherPower.com's people together and intact... to let them all blossom with each other. To keep front page topics... well how shall we say... sort of on topic ?


Regardless of the outcome, I probably spend more time reading and learning on this board then the rest of the Internet put together.. I enjoying meeting new personalities and new ideas every time I stop in for a visit.


Hat's off to every one for you willingness to share your world in A.E. may DanB and others be blessed to allow this forum as well as possibly others to continue to grow into yet a larger neighborhood that is friendly and fun for all walks of life to stop in and visit for a while.


Best Wishes...


John-II

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 07:21:47 PM by John II »

iFred

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2005, 10:38:54 PM »
Dan, would you or anyone else have a problem with me creating a small message board on my web site for posting ideas that are non-mainstream catigories and anything related to free energy, magnetics and magnetism, magnetic fluids and other weird ideas etc...??


I'm more then happy to do so. Also if you want we could put links between the message boards so that people could jump back and forth without issues, this would help solve some of this load and you would not need to add any more stress on your end other then providing a link on top. Plus you get the flow that you want and i'll help admin it on my end, no added problems for you and no duplication required. Heck, i'll even put you adverts on it to make it look like your site if you want. In fact no one would know the content is not comming from your direction unless they looked at the address bar.


I leave it in your hands.


Perhaps there are other solutions.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 10:38:54 PM by iFred »

wooferhound

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2005, 11:05:52 PM »
There is lots of discussion about Hydrogen and other energy storage systems like Fuel Cells, and there is no topic for that eather, so it ends up under Homebrewed Electricity.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 11:05:52 PM by wooferhound »

Jessum Dumguy

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2005, 03:26:41 AM »
iFred

I for one think that would be a GREAT idea and Gracious.

I've been dropping in pretty much Dailey to this form for

around 9 months now but was drawn to it initially

when searching over the OU sites looking for

information on a few questions I had concerning my

own prodject(s). I Just kinda got HOOKED on the

RE along the way. Was bummin when it was made

EXCLUSIVE RE. I'd have rather seen a

compermise of some form made and tolerence of

newbie mistakes ect.


    Honestly if I had better average

winds here in SE Virginia other than the occational

Huricaine I'd have built several Genny's to play with by now.

Still considering PV given the potential of the location and

advancments in the tech but thats not where my head is really at.


   All that aside, RE isn't WHY I found Fieldlines.

No Dis to the founders ect but the names used at

this site are a BIG WAVING BANNER to those looking

for OU information.  FORCEFIELD, FIELDLINES, OTHERPOWER.

Non of those make me think, Gee this must be a RE Site.   :-)


   Anyway thats two cents from Jessum Dumguy

.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 03:26:41 AM by Jessum Dumguy »

BrianK

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2005, 04:12:16 PM »
I just posted about a amtek motor that i got and it poofed off of the front page. I didn't see anything wrong withit I posted in controls because i would like to know what the brown wire is for. i think that it might be a speed senser wire but am not sure
« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 04:12:16 PM by BrianK »

juiced

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2005, 02:35:58 AM »
I guess it kinda funny i 'came back' today....


   the only part i dont understand as valid point is; i cant name any electricity except PV that DOES NOT use magnets. So.. aren't they a kind of nucleus?

« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 02:35:58 AM by juiced »

ADMIN

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2005, 05:19:52 AM »
We are planning to build a separate 'sister' board for Magnets and Magnetism...but I have to deal with some other priorities first.

ADMIN
« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 05:19:52 AM by ADMIN »

ADMIN

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2005, 05:35:41 AM »
The problem is keeping the Renewable Energy Makers from violently clashing with the Perpetual Motion Experimentors.....but a separate board will hopefully fix the problem.

ADMIN

« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 05:35:41 AM by ADMIN »

juiced

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2005, 09:12:32 AM »
i offer my services :)


 

« Last Edit: January 13, 2005, 09:12:32 AM by juiced »

skravlinge

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Re: Protectionism & product security
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2005, 07:22:32 AM »
It is important to have the right to post. It is important to have the right to stay on topic. I like this board, because of many nice persons, as I not meet them but here, its very good we can maybe sometimes  slow bleend the topics. It it is all not belonging to the dedicated areas it is here Rants and Option, and I like that. We respect eachother here no unneeded flames, but anyhow clear and frank.

Let us go on like this.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 07:22:32 AM by skravlinge »