Author Topic: RE "non polluting" kind  (Read 894 times)

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Solarjunkie

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RE "non polluting" kind
« on: December 14, 2005, 04:25:46 AM »
I was wondering how many of you out there are on completely off grid using non polluting RE? I know its far from possible out there, as even the batteries give off noxious gases. Anyone doing Hydrogen fuel cells? just interested in peoples opinions

I am just a newbie to this site and have a house in the city with a few partially passive solar heaters heating my garage and a few panels charging some smaller golf cart batteries so I am far from "pollution free", but was wondering who has come close? Love the board!


Solar Junkie

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 04:25:46 AM by (unknown) »

pyrocasto

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2005, 09:39:37 PM »
YOu really have to lighten up on the ammount of polution you create man. Though a water turbine will let a little grease into the rivers, a bridge would do worse. Pretty much all RE is a lot better for the environtment than grid power(most of the time). Most RE if done right has pretty much 0 impact on the environment.(Compare the amount of birds killed by turbines, to the amount killed by buildings...)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 09:39:37 PM by pyrocasto »

wdyasq

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No free lunch
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2005, 09:44:58 PM »
Don't forget the amount of water polluted and fuel burned to make solar panels.


Ron

« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 09:44:58 PM by wdyasq »
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pyrocasto

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Re: No free lunch
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2005, 09:50:08 PM »
True. In the production of some things RE pollution would be created. How much or how bad though, I'm not sure. I would think though a solar panel over it life would have crated less pollution manufacturing it, than if you were to make the same power from coal or nuclear.


Just a guess and dont actually know.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 09:50:08 PM by pyrocasto »

georgeodjungle

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Re: No free lunch
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2005, 01:47:38 AM »
trees & plants pollute to.

candles are bad,but it's realy funny how some one that's worried about seconed hand smoke,will spark one up.

lots of stuff is bad juju.

nuclear makes less bad stuff than hydro.

pets, ect...

where do you draw the line?

it's realy realy hard to use the hole science, if you use just a part of it,

it becomes junk science.

and a lot of folks fall for it.

i think the big picture is that we make ower power.

every thing makes pollution.

paranoia is easly started,

just do the best you can,

with the lightest "you think" impact on this planet.

if you do nothing, you keep it in the hands that run it now.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 01:47:38 AM by georgeodjungle »

wpowokal

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2005, 04:28:24 AM »
Solar Junkie,  I for one do live off grid plus, You need to not concentrate on imputs to make products. Realy it's all about how you live your current life, if you choose to use solar its a positive, wind is even better.


Oh $#|+ I thought I could explain this but!!!!!!!


allan down under

 

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 04:28:24 AM by wpowokal »
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wpowokal

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2005, 04:32:08 AM »
Ok it's not until you live it that you can apreciate it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 04:32:08 AM by wpowokal »
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Solarjunkie

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2005, 06:04:29 AM »
I see most of you have an opinion on what RE should be. Its a lifestyle change at least. Very interesting, the comments I have gotten back on here are way different that what I was thinking they would be. Of course everything "Pollutes" but what does that really mean? Pollution to me is something that cannot be readily re-absorbed by mother earth. Why is Nuclear power less polluting than Hydro?

Keep your rants and opinions coming!


SJ

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 06:04:29 AM by Solarjunkie »

Volvo farmer

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2005, 06:18:16 AM »
Guess where the solar panel builders, battery manufacturers, electronic assembly plants, aluminum, steel and copper manufacturers get their electric power?



From a plant like this. The thing that bugs me is that electric cars are billed as non-polluting. Sure there's no pollution in your neighborhood, it's all been exported to the Navajo Nation or elsewhere.


Personally, I'm not out to save the world, just trying to save myself.







« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 06:18:16 AM by Volvo farmer »
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Arno

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2005, 06:26:08 AM »
It seems that with the earth in the condition it is today, if we do nothing else except  breath in and out, eat and excrete , then we are already doomed. After all, counting the plants and animals there are billions of us! If there's such a thing as " the boogy man", then his name must be EXTINCT.


arno

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 06:26:08 AM by Arno »

wooferhound

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2005, 06:57:43 AM »
A picture that I took in Russia

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 06:57:43 AM by wooferhound »

terry5732

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2005, 07:31:43 AM »
It always gets my blood pressure up when I see someone show a picture of steam (effin water vapor! ) and cite it as pollution.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 07:31:43 AM by terry5732 »

Volvo farmer

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2005, 07:57:01 AM »
There was actually a big brown cloud over this plant visible from 50 miles away. It's one of the dirtiest coal burning plants in the country. I know the white clouds are steam, They gots to be burning something in there to make that steam, no?

http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&article_path=/news
/05/news051211_1.htm
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 07:57:01 AM by Volvo farmer »
Less bark, more wag.

finnsawyer

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2005, 08:30:05 AM »
I've got a nagging feeling in the back of my head that large wind farms slow down the near Earth air flow and so affect the weather and climate.  According to a comment I saw once by someone in India an area around a large wind farm became dryer.  I guess only time will tell.  If you see the top soil disappearing around large wind farms then you will know.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 08:30:05 AM by finnsawyer »

ghurd

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2005, 08:42:16 AM »
That French tidal powered generator slowed the earths rotation enough to measure.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 08:42:16 AM by ghurd »
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finnsawyer

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2005, 08:49:58 AM »
Bummer.  That's all we need. Longer work days.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 08:49:58 AM by finnsawyer »

MountainMan

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2005, 08:55:29 AM »
Shakespeare said "first, we kill all the lawyers..."


I think this was a step in the right direction.  If we start out by ridding the planet of humans, this planet will go back to normal pretty quickly.  I'll be happy to stick around and monitor the progress.   8^)


jp

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 08:55:29 AM by MountainMan »

pyrocasto

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2005, 01:55:37 PM »
As for the overall windspeed in that area I wouldnt know. But the ground wind speed actually increases in large windfarms. That would be good for the DIYer like us huh? ;-)


Yes everything we do has an effect on the world. Which one has the least effect is what we're trying to figure out.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 01:55:37 PM by pyrocasto »

pyrocasto

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2005, 02:00:10 PM »
That's common sense of course. But you havent answered the question of will that solar panel create more electricity in it's life than it took to create it? I believe so...


That coal plant could be one day shut down but our solar panels will keep on producing. ;)

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 02:00:10 PM by pyrocasto »

Bruce S

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2005, 04:26:09 PM »
SJ;

  IMHO:-)) I wouldn't put it as to what mother earth can re-absorb, but what we "the human race " can stand to live in.

There are many forms of pollution.

Back in what they call the good-ole days people complained about the gas pollution put out by all the animals taking people everywhere, but that was always localized pollution, then there came the soot years of the industrial world, then the Nukes, that if they had been taken care of according the commission's guidelines put out way before 3-mile island was even a concept, there will not have been fallout on either side of the big pond. Now there's the green-house effect problem.

The plants love the green-house effect more warmth for them to grow, more water available as the snow packs begin to melt. Guess who'll survive this one?


There was once a Nuke commission study done back when there were ICBM all over the place. They concluded that the only thing we would accomplish by lighting them all up ,was to destroy our ability to live, the planet itself would survive.


To me pollution is excessive waste of we have. We can't help but waste even if it a small amount, but waste just because we can is the real pollution.


As a life style change; not really just a little more awareness of what's going on in the world. Most of this stuff was taught when we were little. Like turn off the light when you leave the room and such. Back then the bulbs were the expensive part. Or turn off the faucet, someone had to go fetch the water from the well.

Don't leave the motor running, cars then had problems with over heating and $1000.00 was part of what a good house would cost.

Stuff like that.

Know a days people aren't taught these things. It seems everyone is too busy or so into themselves to care if the light burning in the bathroom has 4 100 watt bulbs in it and they complain they can't sleep....duhh.

If those people could get stuck with a Bedouin's tribe crossing the desert for just 2 weeks, they'd never again want to waste anything.


Not ranting, just passing on stuff my elders always talked about.


Bruce S

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 04:26:09 PM by Bruce S »
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ghurd

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2005, 06:34:53 PM »
I want to know why it's 22'F here right now,

and they have a hard time cooling all the boiling water 50 miles North at the nuke power plant.


Seems like that's a lot of heat someone could use for something.


Pipe it to the big bussiness and appartment buildings like they used to do with steam???


G-

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 06:34:53 PM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: No free lunch
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2005, 06:50:30 PM »
The solar panels I install ALL replace gas engines and alternators, or alternators on diesels. The batteries last years longer with solar charging compared to standard alternator charging.


One in perticular replaced a gas engine that used 3 gallons a week, every week, for a medical device.

Over 2 years ago now, say 120 weeks (?), that one 80W panel saved 360 gallons of gasoline, and has 23 years left on the warrenty.

The system all ready paid for itself in fuel savings alone.

That panel will have saved 3900 gallons of gas when the warrenty is up, for it's original purpose.

Now they also use it for some LED lighting too, saving some white (Coleman-type) gas the lights would have used.


Not to mention savings on replacing engines, alternators, belts, etc

G-

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 06:50:30 PM by ghurd »
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Clifford

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2005, 07:56:07 PM »
Lots of different types of "Renewable Energy".


Dams and Hydro-Electric...  Well, there can be a tremendous amount of power, but it certainly is changing the face of our earth.


What about Methane?


Many small electric companies are putting generators on top of landfills.  Of course, one might have troubles justifying a landfill as being "non-poluting".  


Check out the Methane Generators at Short Mountain.


http://www.epud.org/short_mtn.htm


I remember seeing a film about a British Farmer that ran his cars on Methane from his farm.


In a sense, these generators are taking what would ordinarly be polutants, and turning them into energy.


At the moment, I am "off grid" on my Electricity, but "on grid" for my heat (NG).  Still pondering how to effectively move both heat and electricity "off grid".

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 07:56:07 PM by Clifford »

Clifford

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2005, 08:08:12 PM »
Odd...


Sounds like someone is "playing with fire".


However,


I wonder if they just need to do some basic design changes in their generator.


The Tides both raise the sea level, and lower the sea level.  One can presumably generate electricity while the levels are raising, or while they are lowering.


One also has rivers that run East-West, West-East, North-South, and South-North.


If one could slow the earth by manipulating the tides..  then it would also seem likely that one could speed up the earth's rotation.  Or introduce a wobble...  or perhaps even change the poles.


And, of course, there is a hope to achieve BALANCE!!!


Hey, that's an idea.

How much is land cost down in Antartica?


Now if I could only rotate the earth's axis so that Antartica was a tropical climate, I would be a Trillionaire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 08:08:12 PM by Clifford »

Solarjunkie

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2005, 09:01:34 PM »
Wow! what a storm of activity.. Glad people have opinions on what Pollution is! I think that someone said that what they thought pollution was is we waste has a point. I think that what we waste is pollution, no doubt. I go by power plants here in Wisconsin all the time and see brown streaks in the air. Having lived on the edge of Chicago for most of my life it just seems to be part of the scenery, sad. I believe that if 1/2 the people on this earth embraced RE in some form we would have a better chance of leaving something for our children.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 09:01:34 PM by Solarjunkie »

ghurd

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2005, 11:05:41 PM »
You struck a nerve.

The poles have moved more in the last little while than a long period before.

It happens naturaly.

Sometimes they flip too, and we are past due for a pole flip.


Map out tropical dinosaur fossil findings. Many are found around A circumfrence of the earth. But not the equator we have now!!!  Like Siberia and South America???

Sounds like an axis shift to me.


This is full of exact information...

"Some famous guy" (like a Roman maybe?) back a "really" long time ago copied a "really old even at the time" map of Antartica, the whole thing.  Nobody thought it was even close to correct.  Then in the 70's(?) ground penetrating radar(?) showed the map was very accurate, possibly better than any we have now.

How could they possibly have decent a map of somewhere that big covered in ice???


Never heard of pole flip and axis shift comparision, date wise. Maybe they are related?


Too much history/discovery channel.

G-

« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 11:05:41 PM by ghurd »
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dinges

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2005, 03:09:27 PM »
The best way to stop pollution is to kill yourself (for starters).


The air we exhale contains CO2, CO (greenhouse gasses) and water vapour (greenhouse gas). The things you eat, even 'green' grown, can only be harvested by destroying them (eating them). Animals for food can only be eaten by killing them. Eating eggs means destroying future life.


Like a sticker said I somewhere saw:


'Save the planet, kill yourself' (but spare me, please).


Peter,

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 03:09:27 PM by dinges »
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dinges

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2005, 03:21:28 PM »
the d*mn French again :-)


Peter,

The Netherlands.

(who can't get over the Napoleontic occupation; don't even get me started on the German one ;-p)

« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 03:21:28 PM by dinges »
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dinges

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2005, 03:24:15 PM »
You mean they're not windturbines, but actually huge fans to move the air fast?


Curious as to where that statement came from/what's the reason for the effect.


Peter,

The Netherlands.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 03:24:15 PM by dinges »
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niffa

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2005, 04:12:12 PM »
My definition of pollution is the same as my definition of a weed "any thing in the wrong place.

All (well most excluding the moon) energy on earth is, or was at one time generated by the sun and so renewable. The exceptions such as nuclear probably came from the BIG BANG if you subscribe to that belief.

If we wait long enough even the big bang, as a energy sauce, will probably prove to be renewable.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 04:12:12 PM by niffa »

nothing to lose

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Re: No free lunch
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2005, 04:23:12 PM »
Saw an add about some solar pannel manufacture, All Solar powered factory!

They way I read what they said, All power used to make solar pannels is from solar power. That would be nice. Wish I remembered what company that was now.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 04:23:12 PM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2005, 04:42:47 PM »
Perhaps the effect is caused in part by blocking the wind and forcing it a different direction like downwards upwards or around the sides?


The wind hitting a large building does not just stop and sit there, it moves around the building. Sometimes the wind will be alot harder at the sides than in front of it also.

Same volume of air but a different path compared to an open field with no blockage where the wind would not be as strong.


Was an interesting party once just before a storm. The helium ballons in front of the house were flying at an angle upwards but the balloons on both sides of the house were standing straight out sideways. The wind was easy to see comming straight at the house just by watching all the party stuff fly through the air.

Weather forcast that day was bright and sunny, but I think there were toronados reported in the area from that thunder storm we had!

« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 04:42:47 PM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: RE "non polluting" kind
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2005, 06:03:50 PM »
Polution will always exist, it is a naturaul part of the earth itself. It is the man made polution that is the real problem. That is the polution we can control.


Hmm, what is worse or more polution, me burning a little wood for heat, or leaving a woods full of trees burning hundreds or thousands of acres in a forest fire?

The wood and polution of a forrest fire would heat many homes for a long period of time. With a naturaul forrest fire the earth is poluting itself.


Leaving dead fallen trees rot away out in my woods the earth is again poluting itself, same with rotting leaves. Decaying matter produces methane and other polutants. Although it is a cycle and the compost or mulch is good for things also, still polution exists in a woods controlled only by the earth itself.

 So I harvest the earths polution and use it to heat my home.


Famous question, "Does a bear $#|+ in the woods". Well of course it does, so there is more naturaul polution.


So to end polution the answer is simple, kill all plants, burn all forests, nuke ourselfs, and of course fish go potty in the water so poision all water fresh and salted. When all life is gone perhaps the polution will end and the Earth will be saved. Ooops, that won't work, what about space polution from meteors hitting the earth?


If a Tree falls in the woods and no-one is there to burn it, does it still pollute?

YES!


 So really we can never totally end polution or even stop poluting the earth ourself, it is part of the cycle of life. All we can do is try to do the least damage posible while having a nice happy life. That is where the problem actually is though, to many people just don't care and are too lazy. Too much trouble to walk across the room and turn on the fan or window airconditionare, they now have remote controls! Anything with a remote control uses power waiting to see if you press a button on the remote, batteries for remotes are polution been made and being thrown away.

 I know people who actually drive the kid 3 blocks to the park so they can play. Now how stupid and lazy is that?? Drive the kid 3 blocks so they can run around, play ball, and other stuff much more stressfull than walking 3 blocks. Drive them to the park, drive back to get them later. Several times a week, how much wasted gas and polution is that! And they probably let the car warm up several minutes before driving each trip too.


 People in general have become lazy and it shows in the work place, land fills, and the polution they create. Much better to buy alot of throw away cigarette lighters and fill the dumps with them instead of buying 1 refillable lighter and using it for years with one can of feul! Not better, just lazier!

 I use a refillable lighter for starting up my wood burner kindling even.


I have friends that like some of the things I have made, I offer to show them how to make stuff themselfs, fun hobby and sellable too (they could use the money), but no they are too exhausted from sitting on their butts and pressing a button at work for 8 hours a day to do anything but eat and watch TV and create non-productive polution. They'd be happy if I give them one I make (even offered to buy them), but too lazy to make one themselfs with my help and my tools for free.

 Rather it's leather work, pewter casting, electroplating, pinback buttons, other stuff, it does not matter. People want the stuff free or even buy it, but too lazy to do anything themselfs. This is the same reason the world is so poluted, it's easy to be lazy and just create polution for no real reason.


So in reality, even when some polution is created somewhere using RE it will neither end the world our having created it, nor will what we do not create actually save the world. We simply do as little damage as posible ourselfs while the lazy butts do as much as they can and gripe about the problems they caused and prices they pay in dollars for doing so. Then we all suffer when we pay high taxes or prices on products because of the cost of cleaning up lazy butt polution.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 06:03:50 PM by nothing to lose »