Author Topic: More NIMBYs  (Read 327 times)

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BT Humble

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More NIMBYs
« on: April 15, 2005, 05:41:41 AM »
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1346123.htm


Hulls tours Gippsland wind farm sites

Victorian Planning Minister Rob Hulls is today in South Gippsland, in the state's south-east, inspecting wind farm sites at Dollar and Bald Hills.


A Government planning panel is currently investigating whether the 48 turbine Dollar wind farm should be approved.


About 1,500 people have made submissions opposing the plan.


Mr Hulls will also inspect the site of the proposed multi-million dollar Lake Haven - Tarwin Cove developments at Anderson Inlet.


He says the Government is keen to increase the number of wind farms in Victoria.


"We have a policy of a 10 per cent renewable energy target by 2010 and we're very keen to approve 1,000 megawatts of electricity output supplied by wind energy by 2006," he said.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 05:41:41 AM by (unknown) »

Trivo

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2005, 05:28:43 AM »
The desalination plant is going ahead in Perth and the proposal is to put 50 wind turbines north of Perth to cover the power. With a bit of luck the area they pick will be virtually unpopulated and won't get any objections and then people can move in once they are built

Trivo
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 05:28:43 AM by Trivo »

commanda

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2005, 06:59:57 AM »
They'll just object after they move in. Look at Lucas heights. It was there first. Then they built all these houses around it, and now they're all complaining.


For those that don't know, Lucas Heights is Australia's only nuclear reactor. Toy thing for medical & scientific use, situated south of Sydney in what used to be bushland.


Similar story with Luna Park.


I'm not really cynical.


Amanda

« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 06:59:57 AM by commanda »

Gary D

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2005, 07:12:08 AM »
Hopefully if as in the U.S., people objecting to windfarms (especially newly built homes after the fact) are subject to brownouts due to too much power being drawn from the grid. A few blackouts/ brownouts may change attitudes. (blown transformers and major mandatory power reductions may be required tho, people usually ignore volantary power saving requests) After cleaning out fridges of rotten food, and no A/C some minds may think a few turbines look pretty! Just a thought. Gary D.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 07:12:08 AM by Gary D »

johnlm

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2005, 10:22:14 AM »
I think Amanda has a pretty good insight on humane nature.  In a town near me there was a yellow cake processing mill built up in the 1940's.  It was about 4 miles out of town.  All through the 50's 60's and 70's nobody complained much.  In the 80's people started claiming ground water contamination and a few lawsuits were filed. The mill quit processing  yellowcake (raw uranium ore) but started using the facility to process low level waste materials.  In the 90's (even with the lawsuits being common knowledge) a developer built a big new ritzy development right beside the mill.  Many wealthier (and wanna be wealthier) folks flocked to live in the development as it was nicely located in the foothills overlooking the town.  Now an environmental group has formed that fights the mill at every turn, demanding it close down.  I am not very sympathetic to either side, but do wonder why all the retards moved to the development only to complain.

John
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 10:22:14 AM by johnlm »

johnlm

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2005, 10:26:08 AM »
And in the USA many people just blame all this stuff on Bush.  Who do they blame it on in Australia?  Bush?


John

« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 10:26:08 AM by johnlm »

nanotech

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2005, 04:45:41 PM »
This same mentality is being used around here.


There's a new development of high-dollar homes going in a half mile off the end of the municipal airport's main runway.


I'm counting the days until they have to build a new airport farther out of town because the morons buying these houses are going to start complaining about the noise (FedEx deliveries are made by a cargo Lear jet that runs pure jet engines, not turbo jets.  There's already been several complaints about it, but as soon as I've heard them, I've asked if they ever get any overnight FedEx's.  When the answer is invariably yes, I remind them that the airplane they are complaining about is the one that BRINGS them those deliveries!!!  Complaints stop VERY quickly!!)

« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 04:45:41 PM by nanotech »

ghurd

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2005, 06:52:12 PM »
Here in the US, people are flocking to build houses in the 'country'.

Then they bitch about the smell of cows. Wild aminals everywhere. The sound of gunfire. Tractors on the road. Horses on the road. Slow snow plows. No cellphone reception. No fancy restaurants. No pizza guy. No BMW mechanics...


People should stay where they are happy.

I am in the city. I'm not happy.

People here bitch when I shoot wild animals. Something about 1/4" holes in BMWs.


G-

« Last Edit: April 16, 2005, 06:52:12 PM by ghurd »
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nanotech

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2005, 09:16:12 PM »
ROFL!!




"People here bitch when I shoot wild animals. Something about 1/4" holes in BMWs."




Only 1/4"??  Are you only shooting a .22?  Heh, they should come out here and I'll put a 3/4" hole in it!! (.44 magnum at close range makes a BIG hole!!)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2005, 09:16:12 PM by nanotech »

ghurd

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 07:31:16 AM »
Well, 0.264" is a favorite. 6.5X55 Swede. Then I can blame the noise on those Swedish. Everyone is happey because there are no Swedes near here!

And there is the 7.62X54R... (No Russians here either).

Too many Italians locally to use a Carcano.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 07:31:16 AM by ghurd »
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BeenzMeenzWind

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2005, 01:26:59 PM »
I come before you to cite the case of the total berk!


I recently had a discussion with our local councilman regarding energy production. (I've extolled his lack of virtue elsewhere in the past)


He is the ultimate NIMBYist.


His stance on nuclear: 'Stupid idea! All that nuclear waste you can't do anything with!'

In common with most people who know little or nothing about nuclear waste management, he overlooks the fact that you can quite easily cast the stuff into glass blocks and bury it under a concrete and lead dome out in the desert somewhere. I've heard figures (from a friend's father who designs nuclear safety systems) that suggest that ALL the nuclear waste created from the beginning of use to the year 2100 would actually require a storage building somewhat less than the size of a soccer stadium, allowing for proper separation to prevent dangerously critical masses from forming. Naturally, like any normal person I feel that nuclear is far from the best option, due to the potential for accidents at the power plants, in transport and through theft from terrorists for 'dirty bomb' construction.

Despite that, until we have a real alternative (which fossil fuels definitely aren't) we NEED nuclear power. There are probably better uses for areas of pretty desert land, though.


His stance on Solar: 'It looks stupid! Daft looking things on your roof. Besides the electric company would never let everyone do that!'

Don't get me started on that! Are there people who actually think that the utility companies can FORCE us to buy their polluting, overpriced, unreliable energy? You KNOW they'd LOVE it in an orgasmal way if we all had grid-tied PV on our roofs. They could charge us the same amount per unit for the electricity we DO buy without the expense of a lot of the power plants they currently have to use to generate it. If the grid is national, as it is in the UK, they'd be making a fair chunk of their profits just moving around energy generated by someone else.

I also happen to think that a properly installed combined PV and Solar heat array looks pretty cool. The tendency here is to do them in stripes. Just for aesthetics I think.


Finally, his stance on Wind Turbines: 'Blot on the landscape. You can't go putting big windmills all over the place. Spoiling the view.... etc'

I did try to expain that you could have small scale turbines for (rural, you'd never get planning consent in a town) domestic use. I even explained that they could feed surplus power onto the grid. I don't think he got it.


I won't even detail his comments when I explained deep-ocean geo-thermal, the constant cuts in funding for fusion power, the uses of bio-energy, etc.


And this man is an ELECTED official!

« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 01:26:59 PM by BeenzMeenzWind »

BT Humble

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2005, 04:27:17 PM »


Are there people who actually think that the utility companies can FORCE us to buy their polluting, overpriced, unreliable energy?


I can't answer that, but I find it interesting to visit my parents these days.  They live in a rural area, and a good dozen times each evening the house lights will dim for about half a second and then recover.  Apparently this is normal, when your power grid is largely 40+ years old.  They also suffer at least a dozen blackouts a year of a couple of hours' duration, basically whenever a thunderstorm happens.


After all that, when I announced that I was going to ignore the power pole 50m from my new home and install solar instead[1], they thought I was mad (and weren't shy in saying so).  In the 12 months that I've been living there on solar power I've had 0 brownouts and a total of 1 blackout (which was due to my own stupidity, when I attached my inverter wiring with the wrong polarity).



BTH

[1] The power company wanted ~$10,000 to install a transformer at the top of the pole and a meter box at the bottom.  Getting the power from there to my buildings was my problem, and I would have earned the right to pay a quarterly electricity bill.  $8,500 bought me a LOT of solar geek toys! ;-)

« Last Edit: April 25, 2005, 04:27:17 PM by BT Humble »

BeenzMeenzWind

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Re: More NIMBYs
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2005, 02:23:14 AM »
Yeah! Funnily enough, visiting my mum's kinda the same.


There's a 'crazy old man' who has the house backing onto her kitchen. He has an angled array of PVs on the flat roof of his garage. They're Kyocera units and there are a fair number of them. You know the kinda guy. Late 60s. Walks 3 miles into town rather than get his car (a brand new Jaguar XKR!) out the garage, cos it's less effort. Pops into the pub across the road for his nightly single malt and a chat with his friends.


Mum always glances at the PVs every time she goes out there. Never says anything, but you can tell she's hoping they've blown away.


Funny thing is though, Mum and Tony (my-step dad) drive a Nissan, work hard and have too little free time.


I wonder if those PVs are helping to pay for that Jag?

« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 02:23:14 AM by BeenzMeenzWind »