Author Topic: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell  (Read 318 times)

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jacquesm

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fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:57:37 AM »
That was quite the trip !!



After cleaning out the workshop here there were two large items left without a future home (most of the other stuff sold fairly rapidly), besides the tractors and such. The first was an older but still quite nice South Bend lathe and the second was the plasma cutter table.



DanB expressed interest in the lathe and Ron wouldn't mind having the table so we worked out a way to move the equipment using a trailer that Ron could borrow.



Since I was already partially under way I decided to go through Toronto, which would shave a few hundred miles of the trip.



After two days of travelling I arrived at Rons place and we drove the trailer back up north, loaded up the plasma table and the lathe and went back down again.



Most of the trip was uneventful, we had a nice stay over at TomW's place on the way which really helped to break the trip in two.



We had a close encounter of the second kind with a deer. RonB's dilligent navigation kept it from becoming one of the third kind... He sure as hell can't shift gears though, those poor things must be all round at the tops of their teeth :)



After dropping off the plasmacutter and meeting with DonC (who drove a good distance north in order to meet us) we transferred the lathe to my truck and I started out for Colorado with RonB following a day later.



When I arrived I was amazed at the work that Dan & Company had done in such a short time. I brought my hammer along but I may as well have left it at home, the shop was as good as done. I helped a bit with the electricity, met lots of really nice folks ate lots of pizza. (no work no food, that Dan is a hard taskmaster).



Lifting the lathe out of the truck was something I really didn't look forward to but Dan had this handy engine hoist that made short work of it and in 5 minutes or so the lathe was on the ground. The next day we took it easy and worked a bit on some walls in the loft.



The next day at the crack of dawn (or even some before it) off to Iowa to help TomW with the 'project from hell', the 50' pumper tower that he's got.



If you ever get a chance to get one of these sturdy old freestanding towers to put your homemade windmill on then I have one word of advice for you: DON'T !!!



By the time you're done it will be more expensive than building a pipe tower from scratch, even if you get all the steel for the tower for free. The problem is that all the old hardware (bolts, nuts, pull rods, plates, tower adaptor and so on) will be total garbage and will need to be replaced. Because a pipe has much less stuff attached to it it will actually be cheaper. It will also be much quicker. Of course Tom didn't know this when he started but we've been finding out the hard way that freestanding towers are not exactly ideal.



Also it seems that every time we work on that thing that the weather gods take special notice and make our life miserable. We spent one day welding up all the steel for the lift/slide post and making a suitable tower adaptor, as well as straightening out the tower (for the third time or so). We're actually beginning to understand how it works.



The original plan was not to leave until the windmill sat on the post and spun but I just didn't think it was responsible to try to lift the machine up over the top. Tom will get a boom truck to give him a hand and that should make it work, that will make it safe (but add to the cost). I really wanted to do it but I just did not feel that it was safe enough and chickened out. The funny thing is that every time you are on the ground you get really cocky and make lots of plans but as soon as you are up there it all evaporates.



Many thanks to all of you whom I met on this trip and who have given me places to stay and people to meet, this was quite a special trip to me, probably it will be years before I see any of you again but I really have to say that I find your hospitality overwhelming.



Thank you all, RonB & family, TomW & Amy, DanB & Michelle & Maya, MattB & Daphne, Rich, Tim & Lynne, Adam, Tom, DanF, Scott, George & family, DonC and anybody I may have forgotten, I have no idea where we will end up but please feel free to come and visit us any time you feel like, as goodbyes come this was an absolutely unforgettable one.



Tons of pictures below:




so, this is what we are leaving behind:









economy flight:









we've found that monkeys travel cheaper than people so this is an attempt at cost savings:









a bad picture of a yard which had 20+ windmills in it!:









The Texas Border:









at night somewhere between Texas and Ontario:









Back in Ontario, Dans lathe is already in the truck:









Plasma cutter hoisted on to the trailer, that was surprisingly easy:









Anybody in the market for mobile plasma cutting ? :









We've arrived at TomW's place for a nights rest:









And here we are in Texas!:









Industrial Espionage the RonB way, having a look at the profile of a lakota blade that DonC brought with him. Amazing how stiff those blades are!









The lathe has arrived at DanB's, Dan is looking through the pile of junk that fell out of the drawers.









An earth bermed (sp ?) house that I came across in Wisconsin:









Back at TomW's place, the spider that holds the shell of the slide post in place:









The lifting eye arrangement on the post, as well as the safety pin and one clamp (there are two), which are used to stop the post from rattling (thanks Dan!):



(this stuff was welded up when it was close to 100 f, I was sweating so much that it was literally leaking out of the welding face mask)









overview of the assembly:









Topside of the lift post:









Top of the slidepost. That bolt is to stop it from falling down:









The shell in place:









The lift post in place: (that was heavy!!!):









The boat winch that will hoist the slide pole up and down:









Now, this looks like a very sweet and friendly animal, but in reality it is one of the fiercest and most dangerous creatures known to man. It kills its victims by immersion in saliva...







« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 03:57:37 AM by (unknown) »

pyrocasto

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2005, 10:34:17 PM »
Looks like you guys had a lot of fun and got alot done. I'm wanting to make a road trip but we'll see how that goes.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2005, 10:34:17 PM by pyrocasto »

deloiter

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2005, 11:15:42 PM »
I am sorry to hear that you ended up with a rusty tower to work with.  However, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of used windmill towers in general.  


I just purchased another used windmill tower here in Iowa and the galvy was in excellent shape, not one single bolt was rusted or broken in removal.  It was easy to set down and dismantle and load onto a trailer.  In addition, the neck of the tower clamped perfectly around the 2" ID (2&3/8 OD) pipe specified in Hugh Piggotts plans. The pipe should be extended down through the neck another 3-4 feet and attached to the tower legs to give more support to the pipe.  


I ran an add in a local "shopper" for a used windmill tower and received over a dozen calls from farmers in my local area. I looked at four of the closest towers and every one was in excellent condition. I chose one simply because it was a three legger, could be broken down into 10 ft lengths and was nearby.  


Many of us do not have the luxury of lots of space for guy wires and a freestanding tower is our only alternative. There are hundreds of thousands of these towers around the Midwest and most are in the way of modern farmers. Several of the farmers I contacted were willing to use their tractor loaders to help lay the tower down. In fact, that is exactly what was done by the farmer I bought from. I paid $50 but could have purchased any of the towers for under $100. The one I bought was a three-leg 30ft unit but three and four leg towers from 20-60ft are common.  In general, you will find farmers very friendly and helpful and curious about what you plan to do with their old tower.  


I would recommend a three-legger over a four. They are lighter but still plenty of beef to handle the biggest of blades.  Towers are also easy to set up and take down. Two legs pivot and no worries about bending or sagging pipe.  Also towers remove the need to keep multiple guy wires taut.  


There are advantages to freestanding and pipe.  If you have room for guy wires, pipe is the way to go, no doubt.  But please don't give up on freestanding.


Keith  

« Last Edit: July 16, 2005, 11:15:42 PM by deloiter »

jacquesm

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2005, 07:09:14 AM »
good points Keith !



A couple of questions:



How do you lift your machine over the top of the tower ?



How heavy is your machine ?



How high is the tower ?



Do you have any pictures of the arrangement ?





What kind of foundation did you use ?



« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 07:09:14 AM by jacquesm »

wpowokal

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2005, 09:16:00 AM »
Basically I agree with Keith, these towers give excelent opertunity to tilt, certinally my tower 3 leg

, though some 60 years old had no rust problems.


I did hire a crane to dismantle, some $150 OZ, this was to travel from town lower, lay on truck and return to town. Value for money in my opinion.


It's now a tilt tower and just half an hour from up to down.


allan down under

« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 09:16:00 AM by wpowokal »
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deloiter

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2005, 11:48:04 AM »
How do you lift your machine over the top of the tower?

I am at a new location so I will take pics as I proceed. I can only describe what I did the last time and this all assumes there are pivots on two legs. With the tower lying down, I put the genny on the tower just as one would do with a pipe tower. Then the tower is lifted up as high as possible by hand (about 6 feet) and supported with anything handy since the two-leg pivot prevents it from swaying to the side. With the genny on it, it is certainly not light. The 30ft three-legger isn't too bad - two people can easily lift the head off the ground with no genny attached. I attached a cable with a wye to both back legs over a gin pole and to a come-along that I had chained around a conveniently located tree. It was then a tedious process of winch, tie-off, winch and tie off.  A cable on the back side caught the tower just past its balance point. I then set it to rest on the anchors using another come-along from the back side tied to another tree. This may be tough to follow, but I'll take lots of pics this time around. However, I plan to try and find a local farmer with a tractor loader so I don't have to do ANY winching.  


How heavy is your machine?

I have not weighed this current genny. It is the 8ft version built from Hugh's plans.  


How high is the tower?

My tower is 30ft.


Do you have any pictures of the arrangement?

Not yet, but I will put them here as I progress.


What kind of foundation did you use?

Although I will change gennys on occasion, the installation location of the tower will be of a permanent nature. I will use a similar method as with the original towers with modifications to allow for tilting to lay the tower down.  Most, but not all, of the original windmill towers used an inverted T anchor. This is simply a piece of angle iron welded or bolted perpendicular on the bottom of the leg. The ones that I have seen had a piece about 16" long welded to the bottom of the leg and set anywhere from 36" to 50" into the ground. I assume consideration was given to tower height and frost depth. These figures are not meant to be guidelines, just my observations. Most of towers had a leg joint just above ground level, however I have seen some that didn't have a low joint or perhaps had been covered by dirt and I just couldn't see them. There are other ways to anchor the legs, including concrete.  At my prior home, I had an antenna on a 20ft windmill tower. I used heavy-duty screw-in anchors of the type used to anchor mobile homes.


There is one other advantage to a freestanding tower that is I guess I just took for granted. Almost all include some type of built-in ladder system. A close-up inspection would not require a set down. Watch out for those blades though!  


I hope this helps.  

« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 11:48:04 AM by deloiter »

richhagen

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2005, 12:38:46 PM »
Once again, sorry to see that you are leaving the continent.  I would have loved to have driven out to Iowa and met you, or if you were near Chicago.  RonB's stone house looks like an interesting structure there, and I'm sure that he'll make good use of the table - as will DanB the Lathe.  Let me know where you settle down at and please keep your community here informed of your projects.  Thanks for your posts, Rich Hagen
« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 12:38:46 PM by richhagen »
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jacquesm

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2005, 01:17:43 PM »
ah I see, that explains a lot !



Ok, Toms tower is 50' high on 5' 'stilts', it's a solid mount, not a tilt up !



the machine is a 10'er that DanB built.



Thanks for the explanation.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 01:17:43 PM by jacquesm »

jacquesm

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2005, 01:20:37 PM »
Hey Rich,



Chicago is not that far away :)



I probably should have announced the trip but there is so much to do still. Right now we're mostly looking for a new place to settle, Mirka & the dogs have already left for Europe and I'm left behind here ('oh solo mio') to mop up and make sure that everything is winter hardened before closing up.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 01:20:37 PM by jacquesm »

ghurd

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2005, 02:26:19 PM »
Looks and sounds like a fun trip under different circumstances.


Are you selling the monkey?

G-

« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 02:26:19 PM by ghurd »
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jacquesm

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2005, 05:00:09 PM »
well, actually we tried to get people to take the monkey with us throwing some money in to the bargain but so far nobody would take him. We considered leaving him behind in Colorado on the previous trip but DanB caught on to it, now he's in Europe with his mom.



an interesting development is that it seems that we have found some temporary housing in the Netherlands through fieldlines !



« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 05:00:09 PM by jacquesm »

ghurd

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2005, 05:27:39 PM »
Dang!

I always wanted a monkey.


I'm always amazed at how many different people from different countries read this.

Good people too.

G-

« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 05:27:39 PM by ghurd »
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richhagen

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2005, 07:55:33 PM »
Just so you know, you are welcome here any time your in the area.  Rich
« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 07:55:33 PM by richhagen »
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MattB

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2005, 07:49:24 AM »
It was great to see you again Jacques.. thanks for making it out one more time. Hopefully will have opportunity to do so again sooner than later...


-Matt

« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 07:49:24 AM by MattB »

jacquesm

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Re: fieldlines trip #2 and the project from Hell
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2005, 09:32:29 AM »
yeah, it really was ! Sorry for having to leave so quickly, there is so much to do still. I'm flying out of here the 21st, I'll be back once more in Canada to tie up some loose ends at the end of august/beginning of September (shipping of our personal stuff).

« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 09:32:29 AM by jacquesm »