100/100/100 VAWT challenge

[thefinis]

Well Volvo you know how it goes here. Post all the details, be specific, list the variables, list your goals, expect us to pick at what you posted.

I like the idea but think it should have been refined more on the rules but it is VF's baby. I doubt that I'll bother as my newest time line is rather slow(got a 2nd job and building a tower right now) and I am using Ed's design on blades so I would have to share and a mere C note would not even cover gas money already spent to get parts.

I am not trying to hijack VF's contest or thread so to some extent this offer hinges on his willingness to include it. If the contest gets going and there is much interest(5 or more entries) I would consider kicking in a second prize of a $100 US to the one who builds the most watts per sq yard or sq meter(they are close we can come up with a fudge factor) if you are willing to let others copy the design and we can come up with a good way to determine the efficiency. This helps even out the field so just sheer size does not get all the money. Any body got a way that would make this fair and easy to figure? I kind of think it would need the wind speed or a close estimate to help figure efficiency. Maybe for those with no anemometer a time and date of test with the noaa wind data for their area on that date. I would be willing to give this to Ed or anyone else and consider it the best $100 for research I have spent so far.

Carry on

Finis

[coldspot]

I have to ask-

Does a "Jumbo" type count as a VAWT??

$0.02

[dinges]

Do I hear this right ? Not -one- single contestant so far?

Too bad Ron told me that if I were to enter the contest and build a VAWT we wouldn't be friends anymore, otherwise I'd enter into the endeavour. I really value his friendship, you know.

Peter.

[DamonHD]

Well, I'm on the wrong side of the pond for a visit, and I'm not tooled up to even build and test my real 'VAWT' yet.  Plus, being the first time, I'll make a horrible mess of it I'm sure!

I'd hope to enter a later re-run of this competition, though possibly in an "urban-we-dont-get-steady-winds-round-here" class...

Rgds

Damon

[DamonHD]

Oh yes, with the 'zoning/planning-laws-wont-allow-a-tower' rider too!

Rgds

Damon

[wdyasq]

Mr. Farmer of Volvos,

Thank you for offering this fine challenge. I fear not for those who attempt the challenge, but the poor soul who has to verify it. Although the possibility of injury due to the machine self destructing may not be large, it is there. And, there are the expenses that will be incurred.

In light of this, I am offering one of the images of a dead United States politician with the $20 symbol next to it to the 'observer' you appoint. This is a one time offer and the selection of the observer is yours and yours alone.

I realize that it is not much compensation but, it is not much of a job and the observer should have a good time anyway. However, the observer need not be punished (too bad) just because he is the one selected to venture and verify the unbelievable.

Sincerely,

Ron

[disaray1]

   

Peter said...

  "Do I hear this right ? Not -one- single contestant so far?"

 Reread 7th post.I'm in, so maybe I'm the lone sucker?. Possible 400 clams for the winner.

  You could always create another identity so Ron wouldn't know it was you, build a vawt, stomp the competition, collect the money and buy some flowers or candy for him and he'd never know a thing and your relationship would be even stronger.

 David

[Phil Timmons]

You might be right . . .  but do not forget the upper bounds -- if ten guys did this, you would be out $1000.  on and on.  

Might want to put a cap on this.

[ghurd]

I don't understand why so many people are confused.

Maybe Charles Lindbergh won a prize, but all the passengers on a trans-Atlantic flight scheduled for tomorrow don't get the same prize money.

Maybe we all should submit Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson's 1903 Literary work and claim we are entitled to the same Nobel prize?

G-

[Spdlmt150]

Just a thought I've had.... Could this be an array of vawt's, or does it have to be a single unit?

[finnsawyer]

"Sure, I'll accept that."

Oh,oh, you could come to regret that.  If they place the VAWT on the back of a flat bed truck it could benefit from the speed up of the air coming off of the cab.  You might want to reconsider.

[motoman465]

I'll throw my hat in the building ring.  If I am lucky, I might learn someting along the way!  Sounds like fun!  Thanks, Volvo Farmer.

Todd

[feral air]

"the turbine must survive  the elements and the wind, loaded, for 100 days."

Practically impossible to prove. A cheater could snap a bunch of pics over a couple days from different angles and bring the turbine in and then post a pic a day to "prove" that it's still outside. Before the observer shows up they could set it back up.

The 100 days part is kind of silly anyway. If you're gonna go through the trouble and spend the money to do it of course it's going to last 100 days.

"THERE IS NO SIZE LIMIT!"

Then there's no reason it can't be done then, the only challenging part is the time limit. And for those of us that can't build for squat it's still practically impossible...not that it would be any easier for us to build a hawt.

"Only caveat is I need an outside observer to observe amps and volts so I don't get fleeced. If he can keep the hat on his head while measuring, I'll concede to 20 MPH winds."

I think you're setting yourself up here. Just because a lot of people put their vawts at ground level or not much higher doesn't mean everyone does/will. Does it still count as 20mph if the observer's hat doesn't leave his/her head and the 'mill is 60ft up?

The biggest part I have a problem with is the battery requirement. The prize doesn't even cover the cost of the battery so it's not as cool as it sounds at first blush. If you didn't require that (or sent one with the observer) then you're talkin'...then there's at least some chance of the winner breaking even or coming close, if there's a winner.

Not a bad idea overall (and really pretty cool to put up a prize!) but I think it could've been planned better and the date set a little farther out. I don't even want to imagine how fun it's going to be to get an observer out to several different places scattered all over...I don't envy you. ;-) take it easy

[wdyasq]

feral,

One of the neat things about America and this contest is - nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do this. Another neat thing is you are allowed to complain  even if you don't play.

I think the Farmer has given a more than fair contest and I am looking forward to paying my $20 to the observer ....... IF anyone ever builds one.

That is a third great thing about America. Everyone is allowed to spout and spew about what they are going to do and they aren't required to back it up. Volvo Farmer just gave them the reason to post their results of the VAWT rather than just talk about what 'can be done'. Now, a couple of hundred bucks won't buy the materials to construct a wind machine and test it, it will offset a bit of the costs if one is successful.

Hopefully this contest will do one of two things, advance the science of the VAWT or silence those who claim it can be done. Maybe, it will do both. Or, I may get to keep my $20.

Ron

[boB]

VF, I think you better refine the rules once more.

One could accomplish this with LESS than 20 MPH, by simply accumulating energy and then, when stored  over a few hours, wind blowing or not, dump that into the test battery at 100+ Watts for 5 minutes.  Accumulate some more energy and do it again the next day.

You'd have 24 hours to store  100 W X 5 minutes = 8.33 Watt-hours, minus losses of course.

THAT could be done fairly easily at way less than 20 MPH  I would think.

boB

[Volvo farmer]

LOL

Okay for this competition, no fair storing up energy in anything then dumping into a battery. However, I will pay fifty bucks to anyone who can do what you described with a VAWT... Before the end of the year.

You're not eligible since I need you to build me a better charge controller. Get back to work ;-)

[boB]

>>>Get back to work ;-)

OK... OK....  Just as soon as I finish my cigarette !

[disaray1]

Jeeez, boB.

  Thanks for goofing my plan to liberate Volvo of the cash. Why do you think I asked specifically about output continuous/instantaneous? I've been collecting caps for weeks.

 NO CHANGING THE RULES DURING THE GAME!

 David

 

[Volvo farmer]

I see no winky faces or smiley faces. So I assume you're really crying about this? I think the intention of the contest is clear, if people want to go around my intentions so they can have a Ben Franklin and say they out-smarted me, fine.

Build it with caps and I'll pay you. Somebody build something quick so I can pay them and be done with this soap opera.

[disaray1]

Naah Volvo...I was really just goofing with boB and forgot the smiley face- Although I was considering exactly was he thinking, since the rules were so vague. I spent many years of my life taking carefully crafted rules and going around them, by either interpreting them differently than intended, or just by out and out cheating. That's the way professional motorsports works. And I absolutly love "put up or shut up". Truly, the money is not important to me, the challenge is what I was going for. And challenging it is... BTW, I'm not in the "vawt camp"...hell, I dont have a camp, but I generally always root for the underdog. Sometimes they do win and those victorys are oh so sweet.

 I think the challenge you presented is interesting and a good thing here, even though I understand the flavor of the original post (I wasnt offended, but I think a few may have been). Regardless, even if one person walks away with some knowledge and a better understanding of the difficulties involved in electricity generation via vawt, it was worthwhile, IMHO.

 I wont do the caps....but with 68 days left, I've still got some time to scheme. :-P

 What soap opera?

 David

[DamonHD]

I'm not in the running for this competition, but I'm definitely motivated by it!

Rgds

Damon

[bob golding]

does it have be a novel design or can i enter one based on ed,s design?

cheers

bob golding

[thefinis]

Seems to me that almost any design is based somewhat on someone else's design. I did not see any where that it said it needed to be an original design. Mine is based on Ed's but I have money up for the most efficient and I will not try for V Farmer's money cause I can not keep one up and loaded for that long. Heck usually 2 or 3 weeks and I have them down for the next change.

Dang it wish my load of sucker rods would get here so I could finish my tower.

Finis

[Volvo farmer]

Of course you can enter one based on Ed's design, or anyone else's for that matter. Will you? That is the question. :-)

[coldspot]

V F-

"I have to ask-

Does a "Jumbo" type count as a VAWT??

$0.02"

I am still wondering about this question?

Could I enter a "Jumbo" type?

(the maybe barrel halfs blades sideways to the ground, with a sheild from the wind when moving into the wind comes around)

{the type I'd like to play with soon}

Anyway great challenge for us all, so thanks!!