Author Topic: Something which looks great for DC off-gridders  (Read 342 times)

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independent

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Something which looks great for DC off-gridders
« on: January 18, 2010, 05:49:55 PM »
This one is called an Asus et2002. It's got a full sized screen, 20in. Dual core Atom 330 as well as nvidia ion graphics. It's the Atom cpu and especially the Nvidia ion graphics which makes this computer special. There is a binary driver for GNU/Linux, BSD and the like which will allow this graphics card to run with PureVideo -like accelleration. 720p videos and higher resolution.


Best of all for DC only off gridders this is an all-in-one box so the pc and screen run off the same psu. A 19vdc power pack! So can be run off a laptop dc - dc car power supply (cheap/easy). I couldn't find actual consumption figures but an educated guess suggests 2-4A at 12v or so (give or take some) when using. Another bonus is it has a hdmi input if you want to use the unit as a display for other devices.


One thing, the only way previously to have a DC computer was to use a laptop or (expensively) configure a box and display to run off DC only. This is the first time i've seen a full sized computer INCLUDING SCREEN run off a DC power pack.

best is the whole unit is under $US600. A couple of reviews

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Asus-EeeTop-PC-ET2002/

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16340

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 05:49:55 PM by (unknown) »

Volvo farmer

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my destiny is to bump thje 50char limit
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 07:00:52 PM »
That's pretty cool, I wish we could get some actual power consumption figures on it!


I got a 10" Asus eeepc for Christmas.  I really really like it for surfing. The screen is a little small, but for off-gridders, it has about an 8 hour battery life, and it it really easy to load shift battery charging to late afternoon and surf all evening on battery power.


I only know that it takes 40 watts to charge batteries and use the computer. I suspect that when the batteries are full, that would drop to 20 watts or less.  I don't need all the fast graphics and stuff, but a 20" monitor would be pretty nifty!

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 07:00:52 PM by Volvo farmer »
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independent

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Re: my destiny is to bump limits
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 08:02:01 PM »
On this site:

http://www.sust-it.net/energy_saving.php?id=139&title=Asus%20Eee%20Top%20ET2002

the running idle wattage is 24. However, these don't seem to be actual figures but some script running wild from manufacturers specs. The touchscreen version is exactly the same wattage and the larger version comes in lower. I have been using a mobile phone for an internet browser for a few months now means this looks like a welcome addition. I broke the laptop we had by dropping it. Really a bit peeved about that.

The promise of large screen dvd watching is the clincher here as we have no TV and an occasional dose of modern visual culture would be welcome.

Getting back to consumption, there a plenty of dual core atom 330 nvidia ion based net tops without screens. As these setups are standardized from a reference design (there is even a site called www.ionbased.com with a multitude of these things), simply put (perhaps over-simply ;-)) it would be that wattage plus an LED backed 20" screen.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:02:01 PM by independent »

TomW

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Re: my destiny is to bump thje 50char limit
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 08:10:44 PM »
VF;


Got the Asus myself. Bit tiny but low low power use.


You can feed a bigger monitor with it like an LCD and run a USB or bluetooth mouse and keyboard. I have trouble using the touchpad so I use a bluetooth mouse that runs off batteries charged by my ghurd built solar battery charger.


I get maybe a realistic 5 hours battery life running PCLinuxOS which is a good bit short of the advertised 9 hours but better than most laptops of my experience.


It is a good choice for anyone and off gridders specifically.


Tom

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:10:44 PM by TomW »

wdyasq

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SCOOPED .... on power
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2010, 08:28:16 PM »
One of my goals has been to lower power consumption so I can eventually go off-grid. As television hasn't been part of my diet since 1972, I don't have a problem not watching it. I do use computers a lot.


http://www.mini-box.com/site/support.html


This site has a lot of low power computers and this page has information on their power consumption.  I am running a dual-Atom board with a lap-top drive and a DC power supply. I haven't checked the actual use but claimed for the 'box' is about 15W. I have single Atom board and Solid State Drive I plan in using for monitoring.


These boards are not too expensive. A dual Atom and 2GB of memory is ~$130. By the time a Power Supply and case are added one is near or over $200. The advantage of this over an 'assembled system' is one is not forced to remove the installed virus from Redmond before having a stable machine.


Ron

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:28:16 PM by wdyasq »
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Volvo farmer

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Re: my destiny is to bump thje 50char limit
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 09:43:19 PM »
Holy mackerel.


My battery just got charged (green light) and I looked at the Kill-a-watt.


8 watts to run this cute little netbook, Eight!  I was expecting double that. I got the 1005HA if anyone is interested.


There are some serious technological breakthroughs happening right now. We just got a couple GE LED globe lights at Sam's. 2.8W each, 80 lumens and 2900K temperature. Not cheap at $20/2-pack, but the light is warm and totally acceptable, just a little weaker than CFL. Our chandelier uses three bulbs and 240 lumens over the kitchen table is going to be perfect. There is no CFL bulb that I could put in this fixture and have it use less than 3W/bulb.  Experiencing these things, I'm going to go out on as limb and say that LED home lighting has achieved mainstream status. I've seen some crappy LED light, but these GE things are nice and warm, like old 15W incandescents!

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 09:43:19 PM by Volvo farmer »
Less bark, more wag.

independent

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Re: SCOOPED .... on power
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2010, 09:51:23 PM »
I had a quick look at that site. Those, pico psu and such are interesting. I built a computer around an m2 atx psu once. It had a desktop micro atx and a extra low voltage socket 754 turion high performance cpu. The problem was that i couldn't get the consumption down to reasonable levels. It had an SiS chipset. I think all told it was around 50-60w running. And then there was the screen to get onto DC. Usually you can run the lcd screen 12v off the 12v line of the psu if you've got the amps to spare. What a lot of RVers and I guess off-gridders don't know is that that 12v plug pack for that lcd monitor or tv is actually regulated.It was too much to get the consumption down to acceptable levels in the end. I gave up on customized pcs for low voltage. That was a couple of years ago.

Since then i just reisgned to using laptops. All on *nix. I got the x31 down to 7-11w with undervolting the cpu. A normal pentium m 1.8ghz laptop with ssd was around 20w when working, 14w when idling.

What really has changed in *nix world is the binary nvidia driver has hardware accellerated integrated graphics. That's a big jump from even last year. I've tried to be open source for most things but this is a big step
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 09:51:23 PM by independent »

SparWeb

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Re: Not really a review either...
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2010, 10:36:00 PM »
My wife and I each have a laptop.  I got mine specifically to use as a data-logging computer out in my battery shed.  It's a 2004 IBM Thinkpad and the PSU sucks about 30-40 watts no matter what state the battery is in.  My wife bought a little netbook this summer and it's just like VF's - hardly uses any power and lasts forever.  Gotta laugh because she won't let me use it out in the barn!  "but honey it's so much more efficient than mine..."  I'll never fool her.  She knows better than that.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 10:36:00 PM by SparWeb »
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independent

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Re: SCOOPED .... on power
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 01:31:16 AM »
Replying to myself. A correction, remembered that the 1.8ghz thinkpad (t42) ranged on the ammeter from 1.4A to 2.9A at 12v so between 18-35w in use.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 01:31:16 AM by independent »

richhagen

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Re: my destiny is to bump thje 50char limit
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 06:47:45 AM »
I have a similar 10" Asus netbook too.  Mine has seen service on three continents keeping me connected via the internet, and is happy running off of a 12V external battery with its 12V input.  For what it is, and at US$300, I have nothing bad to say about it.  I never measured its exact power consumption, but it is not that high.  Bthumble had gotten the laptops installed in the Fiji school project down to one amp, or 12 Watts on older used laptops, pentiums and such.  He got rid of the hard drive in favor of a bootable complact flash card, and also tweeked the settings I believe.  Desktops generally haven't been able to compare (my desktop draws about a hundred Watts idle) until possibly the one that is the subject of this posting. Rich
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 06:47:45 AM by richhagen »
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LarryDalooza

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SSD hard drive
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 07:07:17 AM »
Replace your spinning HD with a solid state drive (SSD) and lower your consumption and increase you performance.


Lar.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 07:07:17 AM by LarryDalooza »

Bruce S

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Re: SSD hard drive
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 09:37:40 AM »
Lar;

 Did just that on one of the newer DELLs of the same type. NO go :O. Kept blue screening-death.

Tried new install, ghost-over and several others. I could get it stable, then turn on again and it would go BSoD.

Put drive back in and TADA, no problems, also there are models of SSD that will not take a boot sector, from *nix or DOS or Windeers, so buyer beware.


Cheers;

Bruce S

« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 09:37:40 AM by Bruce S »
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DamonHD

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Re: SSD hard drive
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 09:46:22 AM »
That's bad news...


I'm using a USB flash drive for my main mag disc replacement.


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 09:46:22 AM by DamonHD »
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independent

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Re: SSD hard drive
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM »
I don't know if this is helpful or not but there is a difference between compact flash cards which represent themselves as a "fixed" hard drive and most that do so as a " removeable" one. Most need to boot off a "fixed". If a secondard one is added, this then is needed to be "removeable". Good info on this on the thinkwiki site
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM by independent »

taylorp035

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Re: Not really a review either...
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 11:23:17 AM »
NO WAY!!  I test my thinkpad last week and it pulled ZERO power when it was off and the psu doesn't pull much power even when it is on.  When charging (like right now) the battery is pulling 37 watts and the computer itself uses between 12-25 watts, usually 17 (thinkpad battery utility).  


Here is a video to prove it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isswvcz7Mcg


The yellow meter is the voltage and the red is the amps.


As for the desktops, a stock model has a 60 watt processor instead of a 15 watt or 7.5 watt in the laptops.  More powerful machines can get up to a 1000w, but that is like a triple graphics car set up.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 11:23:17 AM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: Not really a review either...
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 12:34:12 PM »
Basically, there is no way that your power supply uses 30-40 watts.  They only output 70-90 watts, so that would be about 1/3 of the power, and therefore the supply would get much, much hotter.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 12:34:12 PM by taylorp035 »

frackers

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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2010, 03:10:42 PM »
That Nvidia ION/Atom CPU combination is great - quite a few motherboards are using it now. I'm running one for my media system made by Zotac - full high def display (it has hdmi as well as dvi and vga output), upscaling etc. Fanless and with a modded laptop brick (its 12v) it draws 20w flat out. Shame the LCD TV takes 150w :-(
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 03:10:42 PM by frackers »
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RandomJoe

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Re: SSD hard drive
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 05:20:13 PM »
That's what I figured at first, but I was surprised to see when shopping for my netbook that for the same model (Asus Eee 10") the SSD version had lower battery life than the standard notebook HDD version.  All else was equal.


So I assume some versions of SSDs are NOT very miserly with power.  Or they really screwed up the implementation in some way!


My Eee 1000HE (Atom CPU, 160GB HDD, about a year old now) runs 10-12W with the screen going, pretty sweet when the Atom-based desktop I also got about a year ago sucks down 25W all by itself - not including the screen!  Keep thinking I might just get another Eee to replace the desktop.  (It is my battery-based server.)


Then again, my 15" Macbook Pro only sips 18-20W while providing substantially more horsepower (Core 2 Duo CPU) and screenspace!  At a substantially higher price, granted... :)

« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 05:20:13 PM by RandomJoe »

independent

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Re: my destiny is to bump thje 50char limit
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 05:38:51 PM »
It's a really good point. I too think we are at the stage of deminishing returns.LEDs, laptops, high tech gagetry. It's really been an interesting thing watching the cpu speed race, go up, then back down. This is, as they find there is a sweet spot for power consumption in the 2ghz range and that adding cores, secondary cache has more benefit in real terms without increasing TDP/wattage used by said cpu. Also, they are running into problems with dialectric leakage at the ever shrinking size of lithography used to make the integrated circuits. My interest is purely as a layman, but it seems "commodity" parts for computers are really becoming a reality as the production must be getting cheaper (they are using Atom cpus in devices from phones to supercomputers (the same can be said for "cell" processors)). For the Silverthorne (i think 200 series of Atom cpus) it states on wikipedia that they are getting 2500 cpus per 300mm2 wafer. I don't know exactly how that compares with larger and more complex cpus but i imagine it's many factors cheaper to manufacture. I know there is a real argument to be made for halting the common practice of manufacturers planning obsolescence into designs. But another time/place to discuss that perhaps..
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 05:38:51 PM by independent »

independent

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Et2002 quick measurements
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 11:37:17 PM »
I got a chance to measure the et2002. Measured with a cheap plug in watt meter

Off is using 19 or 22w. Not so good. Goes against that sus.it site of 2w standby.

On and working but screen off 35w. Sus.it site says 24w??

Running 40-45w low to medium screen brightness. Pretty good.

I really want to try this out on another power supply. I guess also measure actual amps running through the 19v line would be useful.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 11:37:17 PM by independent »