to all you over unity fanatics

[jacquesm]

Hello there,

If you don't have a sense of humour I suggest you skip this posting.

Still here ? Good !

I haven't been here very long, just a couple of days but have done my best to read each and every posting on this site, and quite a bit of the archive (what a treasure trove that is!) and I was struck by the fact that this board seems to be populated by two groups of people.

For the sake of the argument - and assuming no overlap, which I'm sure is a mistake - I'll call them the 'Alternative Energy Enthousiasts' and the 'Overunity Enthousiasts'.

At the risk of starting a flame war (I'm wearing my welding outfit, go ahead) I'll risk to say that these two groups have much more in common than seems to be the case at first glance.

That's not meant as an insult to the inhabitants of either group, let me explain what I mean:

both groups seem to think energy production should be in the hands of individuals

both groups seem to have a strong leaning towards 'independence' of the grid and otherwise

both groups seem to like to tinker with stuff, electrical and mechanical

both groups seem to want to improve the world in general and try to do that by starting with their own backyard

both groups are populated with lots of very inventive and creative people

So far so good. Quite a few things in common there.

I seem to pick up a vibe here and there that writes off all the over-unity enthousiasts as 'kooks', based on their misunderstanding of the fundamental laws of physics, esp. thermodynamics and I strongly disagree with that.

Why ? After all, I'm firmly in the other camp, am I not ?

Because the whole universe is one big over unity device. Nobody has any clue where the energy to power the big bang came from (sorry creationists), all the theories notwithstanding, the eyewitnesses are a little thin on the ground, yet we can simply not deny that this universe is real and full of energy. Unless of course you have a copy of that elusive universe 1.0 owners manual and the maintenance reference guide that comes with it.

Whether you believe in god or the great handkerchief is irrelevant for that, it is a simple and undeniable fact that all this energy exists, yet nobody ever paid a dime for it and we have not even a ghost of an idea of what started it. Whatever we do today, tomorrow the sun will rise and there will be free energy for the taking on every square meter (or foot for the metrically challenged) of this planet and every other surface our sun is shining on. Far more than we can EVER consume.

Now for the heart of the matter.

Dear over unity enthousiasts. As much as I symphatize with you, everytime I see Zubbly deal someone the Ace of spades (hilarious, what a mind bender that is, quite a talent there !) I cringe a little. It sort of 'marks you', if not for life then at least on this board. You are now officially a kook... shame on you.

Sure, it's easy to make fun of those 'kooks', after all we can easily see why their devices won't work. We all have an education... even if some of us can't spell. But look at it this way: If you can't give me a full blown explanation of why we have all these stars undergoing fusion based on atomic reactions, fusion being nothing but the liberation of the energy stored in the atomic bonds (just as fire is the liberation of the energy stored in chemical bonds, to put it simply) with a full chapter on how that energy got stored in those bonds to begin with then you'll have to allow - as a true scientist would - that over unity, in at least one case seems to be a reality, therefore is worth investigating. It's just a matter of scale after all. A 'little bang' perhaps ?

A good proof needs only one example. Even if from that one example forwards the general agreement between scientists seems to be that it was all - energy wise - downhill from there. The only thing we eventually SEEM to be able to do is spread energy around until the point where recovering it costs more than what we get back. Most notably these losses are in the form of heat radiated away from whatever devices we are using. As far as we can see, on a macroscopic level any interaction between matter loses some energy in the from of heat. It's sad, but that *seems* to be the way things are, that one example to the contrary notwithstanding. That's quite a burden of proof to overcome, and some pretty bright minds have literally burned out searching for a way to prove the opposite. Consider yourself in good company But please don't burn out. Maybe restate your goals a bit and 'join the other side' where the goals are so much more achieveable.

I doubt - as much as the next guy probably - the merit of this frantic search for > 1 output devices. And the more simplistic ones have me chuckle each time someone comes up with yet another 'great idea'. I guess part of it - as Dan mentioned - is that this board seems to have more than its share of 'enthousiasts'.

But to me that is a 'good thing' (sorry Martha). An educated 'over unity' enthousiast is fair game for becoming an alternative energy enthousiast. What with all that we already have in common. All it takes is a little patience, and maybe some education. And if by chance one of these guys would stumble on a way to make that room temperature fusion device a reality, boy will we all look silly. And terribly poor in comparision to boot

I say go, overunity enthousiasts ! Prove me wrong please, I'll be as happy as a clam with your little fusion device powering my sports car. I don't believe in it but if you do then don't let anybody stop you. But *do* try to keep an open mind about it. You *could* be wrong, and maybe all the energy we have here is just one big cosmic bank loan, and at the end the books will balance out to 0. (There is some evidence for that at the sub atomic particle level, way too detailed to explain here, but it's kind of interesting to see how on a very small scale really weird things happen, such as time flowing backwards (experimentally observed and confirmed in peer review, and energy being created and subsequently destroyed, ditto). Every scientist that wants to keep his job however is going to be very very *very* skeptical about any macroscopic evidence of these effects. They tend to cancel out at larger scales. No brownian motion 'rectifiers', no electron pumps, no air pressure capture devices and so on. As far as we know - which leaves a tiny little loophole - they are impossible.

And spend as much time as you can on getting educated in the relevant fields, physics, mathematics, chemistry and any other exact science that touches on the fields that you want to dabble in. It will save you embarrasment, and maybe you'll come over to 'our' side of the fence after looking at it from a dry scientific point of view. Or maybe you'll see where we all went wrong and the last laugh will be yours.

No electrons have been harmed in the production of this piece, all of them were safely returned to their respective atoms at the end of the day.

best regards, & may the force be with you

and thank you all for having me on here, it's *lots* of fun, I have not found any other place ever, online or offline, that had so many creative minds pushing towards similar goals ever before, and I'm very happy that I have found you.

[iFred]

I'm not sure what to make of this one, but I do know for fact that a spell checker is in major need. Not withstanding, telling us that  your confusion and hope is at least still alive but also dead...ummm I ponder the motive ;-9  - you switch around like a multiplexer which is hard to follow at times. To be or not to be, which came first the chicken or the egg? If a tree falls and you didn't hear it, did it really fall? You see my point, your open minded but closed. You have made a decision but don't want to burn the bridges behind you. A stable state of confusion.

The one thing that we can count on for sure without doubt is "entropy", it totally rules the entire universe. The more things change the worse they get; your testament above is evidence to it.

Entropy rules all.

Oh yea, as for the rules established over 100 years ago, time for some changes to Earnshaw's Theorem among others only due to changing technology and new material physics, you havent seen nothin yet!! Material physics is going to change everything once we get a handle on it.

[bill541]

Jacque, I sure enjoy reading your posts....What a great sense of humor, balanced with a technical mind....

I must agree, this is a great forum for sharing ideas about practical and sometimes not so practical things. None of us would be coming together like this if we didn't all enjoy it!

-Bill-

[devoncloud]

Amen,,,, you go brother...

But come on, really you unity "kooks".. there are two theories here that seem possible at this point, which is the universe is forever expanding and just spreading the energy of the universe out thinner until you really cannot tell it is there anymore (while getting cooler) or black holes suck up all that energy up again, combine themselves into one huge black hole with all mass,energy, and time (and everything else) and "BANG!!!!"(as soon as their is too much stuff to cram into that little nucleus the black hole has or whatever you wish to call it), it all happens all over again.

So, if you beleive the first theory is correct, then unity is not possible, or if you beleive in the second theory, perhaps it is.

I guess your unity machine will be a black hole?  Let me know when you all are close.... I would like to move to another solar system.  

Come on guys, seriously....get real here.  You cannot make a devise that creates more energy than it uses.  This is against the laws of EVERYTHING!!!!!!  This reminds me of TOM W's hilarious bull on the toilet picture, except you all have plugged up the toilet with all the Bull $@$#@#@ you are throwing on the website to the point that the only devise that would unplug the toilet would be the freakin black hole you unity freaks would have to create to make your unity machine a reality.

The closest you are going to get to a unity machine is a pebble.  You throw a pebble in the middle of the pond, you get a ripple.  The ripple will expand throughout the pond until the energy is expanded throughout the entire pond.  When the ripple hits shallow water twards the edge of the pond, the energy begins to concentrate again and causes a wave.  Is it possible to harness that energy the wave makes for some other use? Sure.  But the more you do this, the less energy is left in the pond to continue the cycle.  But at least you are not loosing energy to heat.  

You kooks have a great time trying to come up with the unatainable.  I suspect you all are the same group of people that go to the Star Trek conventions hoping Scotty will beam you up someday.  Keep up the hope!  Just stop waisting the time of those of us who are not stuck on the starship Enterprise.  We would like to continue thinking up ways to better devises that do not require warp drives.

Devon  

[nobicus]

First let me nail my colours to the mast, I am a Kook (whatever that is).  I am brand new, still wet behind the ears when it comes to all this power generation stuff.  It is 40 years since I was at school and did any physics and at that time Ohm hadn't even been born let alone passed any laws and the Otto cycle was something the German boy came to school on, by the backroads and over Wheatstone's Bridge.

I too am thoroughly enjoying the forum for it's own sake and learning stuff all the time.  I have ordered the guru's books, bought a kit off Ed (what a grand chap he is too)which I am to build to learn stuff, copied stuff from this and other websites and in general am behaving like a kid in a sweetie shop!!

I have my own design for a perpetual motion machine (ha,ha) which I shall try to build using an old bicycle, some wood, washing up liquid bottles  and a pair of Val's old knickers. (joke for the English amongst us)

All you folk who pooh, pooh such stuff just you wait, just you wait 'enry 'iggins just you wait!!!!

[Chester]

I think this is funny.

You get energy by slowing the wind. Yet the wind can increase, despite all the propellers stuck up there slowing it down. And you say there is no free lunch?

There may be more kinds of wind. But why look? It's impossible, right?

Because Michaelson-Morley showed the apparent propogation of light was the same in all directions did not prove that there was no aetheral wind. Still this ad hoc belief was attached to this fine experiment, which only favors corporate energy. But let's stick a propeller in the aetheral wind to see if it's there and see what happens. All we need to do is slow it down a bit and reap the difference in energy, just like the nifty turbines so many of you build to harness moving air. Or maybe photons are really wave-particles. We don't need no fields in physics, if it ain't profitable.

If you really want kooks, it's the big bangers, who think that the big bang is not a creationist myth, because they believe it isn't.

Despite cause and effect.

Who then claim there is no free lunch, despite believing in the greatest free lunch that ever could be.

Black holes don't exist, except maybe as centers of gravity. No doubt there are centers of gravity. But there need be nothing there. Ergo, there is nothing to see. Yet it appears for the educateded need magic to explain the mundane. Event horizons by the hatful. That pays some folks very well. That's not a free lunch, when you have pay someone to invoke magic.

Sorry for the rant.

Stay tuned.

 

[tecker]

  The proof is in the pudding . Make it, test it  ,stand the test of scrutiny and we move down that road . Time energy, over unity , zero point energy  is open for the proof positive only, make it build it test it .Put all proving devices in  use and develop what was once a myth. Just like dat No one should ever support what cannot be prov en  .With the exception that your gonna wake up when you go to sleep .

[thunderhead]

I think the main objection to the over-unity posts is not that they are impossible, it is that they are off-topic.  I say this as someone whose main interest, electric vehicles, is only on the fringes of the topic here - but also as someone who has learned lots about energy use in the home, especially about efficiency, and is certainly inspired to do more.

I also am constantly thinking about the fundamental laws of physics and how to exploit them, but one thing I would say is that I'm not sure I want to be on the same planet as a successful perpetual motion machine.  A ball made of "magic rubber" that bounces higher than it fell could cause widespread destruction before it reached escape velocity.

Something similar applies to the people who want to exploit fundamental laws.  A gadget that sucks up quantum energy might be able to release that energy, but the release of energy might make Oppenheimer's little toy look like a sparkler.  And as for someone building a black hole in their garage...no thanks.  I'd rather live in Chernobyl.

One administrative possibility for unblocking the U-bend might be to create a "perpetual motion machines" topic, and to create user profiles that only display selected topics.  That way the >1 people will post their ideas, and go away happy ... and the rest of us can ignore them with a tick of a box.  This might be the "wierd science" option, which might put the >1s off by the  word "wierd".  Perhaps "alternative science"?

For maximum sneakiness, leave the ">1" section off the default view, and add any section to a user's view when they post to that section.  That way they post to the ">1" section, they see their post appear and go away happy ... but no visitor coming by sees any perpetual motion machines.

Just my thoughts.

[tecker]

 Sure no body wants to be in league with a bunch of kooks looks bad and is is is distracting yeah that's it distracting . There is a topic this one was not posted correctly

[iFred]

I really get sick and tired when I read statements that "you can't do this or you can't do that", it's impossible or it can't be done or it breaks the laws of physics.

First, the laws of physics are laws created by man after viewing nature a certain way. These laws which man has created are changeable upon viewing something differently or by which new and better descriptions / technology tends to clarify.

So do not say that laws can't be broken, bend or otherwise changed, for they are the laws of man. The laws of nature as we see it and have described to the best of our ability. You cannot tell me that you or I understand all there is to know and based on this have the conclusive and 100% theory of everything. Is not going to happen. There is always going to be uncertainty and changes required.

So with this I say the following; - a disproof of a conservation law slash/ invariance principles "the quality of PARITY". Heisenberg and the uncertainty principle, coherence in  chaotic systems ect... ect... etc... I can keep going...

The point is you cannot say it can't be. Because it can. The nature of the universe is more strange then strange.

I am a physicist by nature, not into weird science exactly, more like unconventional thought. I think different.  Logical  but different. The believe is in something more to the total picture.

So apologize to those that you have attacked bluntly and brutally for thinking that you know it all and called names such as kooks and lets keep it civilized and open minded.  Grow up.

Fred.

[iFred]

Just try to explain this!

Here we have a magnet stuck in mid air expending no energy in doing so. pure material physics. No energy in but yet it is doing something. not much much but something, it's floating. Nuf said.

[tecker]

  Over unity the bipolar in the preasents of a magnetic field has induced current and has aligned  and has forced the fabric of space around it to become a magnet.

[bob golding]

you could try running your sports car on uranium. would keep it going till all the bits wore out. just make sure you have all the kids you need first. another plus is  you could hire yourself out as a light bulb at night as well. :-)

[stop4stuff]

Hi Fred,

The finger tip image is taken from here,

http://www.hfml.ru.nl/fingertip.html

although the text doesn't mention it, the magnet 'levitates 2.5m below a powerful superconducting magnet...'

See the pdf link to the paper explaining why diamagnetic levitation is possible.

paul

p.s.

Thanks to all of you who've helped me understand what energy is all about.

[devoncloud]

oh, brother... Look over unity people... specially those of you that wish to use suspended magnets as a argument for your cause...

You cannot harness any energy from something in such a way where it creates more energy than it uses.  This is against the laws of energy... energy is an ever flowing source of power... it never ends,but it never increases either, only concentrates either by means we have created in order to produce power or by natural causes such as a black hole or a sunami or something similar.  You cannot create a devise that uses 0MW of power to maintain motion but puts out 1mw of usable electricity!   You can only concentrate energy for a certain purpose.  Your ideas that you may do anything more than this belongs on a Star Trek episode, not here on a site that wishes to help people build viable, usable devises to turn energy into electricity!

Look, I enjoy a Star Trek episode here every once and a while myself too, in fact, I am going to go to my bathroom and think up my own episode right now while I sit on my thrown.... I just hope I do not have to do battle with those pesky Cling-on's...:>)

Devon

[Roamer195]

Remember, this IS a rant forum.

After only a short time here, reading through the posts and diaries of quite a few

individuals, I've seen several valid "energy absorbing" device designs already posted, besides windmills and air-conditioners. A couple of others are very close, but still missing the big picture.

It's just tragic comedy that the self-appointed physics cops around here actually believe that they have a correct "understanding" of voltage, current, EM field structure and C.E.M.F after field collapse.

In a nutshell, if you're still pushing magnets and coils around to get some meager ration of usable power trickling down a wire to your house, you're wandering around in the stone-age.

Then having the nerve to try to make others feel stupid for having more vision than yourselves is just disgusting.

This isn't a "flame". It's a simple statement of fact.

You're all mostly blind. And if you participate in a chain of "perpetual ridicule" then you are simply stupid and EVIL. Laughing at other's expense is foul. Doing it over and over qualifies you as a complete ass(that's a stupid beast of burden, for those that don't know).

The biggest joke on you is that somebody here already dumped the answers

in your lap, several times. I found it pretty quick. Can you?

If you can take a few moments to step away from your faith in dogmatic statements

of hyper-limitation then maybe, just maybe you'll see what's right in front of you.

I snicker in your general direction.

No, I'm not going to point at it for you. It'll be more fun to read your rant about how I OWE YOU an explanation to "support my claims". Eat dirt.

 

[tecker]

  Ye ha better out than in let em  out and ridem

[RatOmeter]

Funny, in all the time I've spent either lurking or displaying my gross ignorance on this board, this is the first that I recall seeing the word 'kook' used here.  Maybe it's been used here before and I just never noticed it, but I don't really like it.  The word has been used for years in usenet newsgroups to describe people with paranoid tendencies, conspiracy theories or a way-off-center approach to scientific topics. In my opinion, many of those are attention-seeking trolls who simply wish to argue the perverse view for the sake of perversity and the attention garnered.

I must say that I'm disappointed to see the term used here because I haven't seen much kookish behavior in this forum. The term is divisive. In the nature of racial epithets, it moves the view of a person from that of their own ideas, opinions and conversations to some predefined group.  People rarely fit neatly in stereotyped groups and placing them there does a disservice.

I have to agree that the 'overunity' people here have a similar enthusiasm to energy generation, use and conservation.  In that sense, they belong here.  However, the main thrust of this forum is (correct me if I'm wrong) a DIY approach to small-scale generation and/or utilization of alternative and renewable energy.  I see this A.E. in the sense of being a practical alternative to fossil fuels and the energy infrastructure, not as an alternative to what is accepted by science today.  That doesn't mean that I think we should limit the topics discussed here to only Wind and Solar energy... there is already a structure in place to accomodate a variety of topics.  Let's use that as intended, possibly debating only whether or not every post should go to the front page immediately.

[tecker]

   Sometimes you gotta take those garments of disdain out of the closet and don them and participate in spirited discussion to to effect the chemical and emotional pathways to learn new ideas and to store memory . Any   think tank is composed of opinions. To see the group polarize this way puts me on track and will assure that what we are about is real and not kooky .

[zubbly]

Hi Jacquesm!

glad you enjoyed my explanation of the 5th dimention. However, it is in no way intended to mark any one as a "kook". If any one is to be labelled a "kook" then i shall be first to stand in line to receive the "kook" of the month award.

APOLOGIES!  to any one that feels i have labelled them a "kook".

WHEN EVER WE STOP JOKING A LITTLE AND HAVING FUN WITH EACH OTHER, is time that we have stopped being human.

if any one feels i have "marked them" as a "kook" let them speak for themselves!

lastly, Jacquesm, if i make you "cringe", then perhaps you should better understand the 5th dimention

as far as " over unity " stuff goes, i love it all. this is where some of the brightest ideas are born.

have a great day!   zubbly

[TomW]

Rat;

As many know, I proposed these things while I was editing here. The owner like the wide open anything goes forum and that was why I resigned the post.

Six weeks ago the editors left and the tiller is either broken or has been ignored in favor of allowing the ship to drift.

I joined and worked hard on this board because it [used to] have solid ideas for harnessing energy in the environment and using that in place of the "normal" power sources.

My beef with the overunity crowd is they treat it like religion, they have no proof, they have no device, they simply have faith. My solar panels and wind generation units produce tangible power every single day, well not the wind spinners but you get the idea. Stories on improving those is much more useful to me than wasted space talking about some dream machine that can not be demonstrated even a little.

I still read most of the forum but it is very hard to glean the useful info from the pseudo-science proposed by instant experts with no clue on reality.

Several of you need a good smack upside the head with a cluehammer, I believe, also. Who you are i will not say but you probably already know.

The recent EV thread was and is pretty interesting and while slightly on the edge of "topic" seems based in hard science and is interesting to boot.

Much of the crap would disappear if they simply turned voting on for comments and stories. I also suggested that option many months ago.

'Nuff said!

T

[jacquesm]

Hehe, you had me laughing out loud there. I figured you were doing that in good humour, but I also spotted a tendency for that person to then either become very quiet or just go away... Your writing reminded me of a book I read called 'snowcrash'. It has a virus that only works on computer programmers because it sends their mind in to an infinite loop or scrambles it or something like that. I think your writing may have the same effect on prospective over unity device designers

I did not mean to speak for anybody, however, I did understand that this was the intended effect, my bad...

Mind control, we *know* 'they' have it... possibly you're on to something here, quick patent it. And keep an eye out for long black limousines parked in front of your house. And for gods sake don't act paranoid, that will make 'them' even more aware of you.

Retrospectively, after reading some of the responses to my post, maybe I should have added a third category Humour is a great thing. Welding outfit still holding strong.

As a penalty for my misunderstanding of your intentions I shall now solemly study the fifth dimension until I fully grok and encompass it.

Have a great day too!

j.

[jacquesm]

amen. Who owns this board ? Isn't that the wondermagnet guys ? Ed ?

[BrianK]

As for a free lunch you will have to pay something to someone no matter what. I think almost anything a possible. It is all about trial and error, and gaining knowledge. Look at the corral castle in florida small man moved giant stones. As far as I know no one really knows how he did it.  Just my thoughts so please dont blow me up.

 

[DanB]

Yes... its us - the wondermagnet guys ;-)

Tom - the tiller is not broke ;-)

as I have time, I read almost everything here.  Most of it is appropriate in my opinion - and I surely respect the fact that other folks have other opinions.  I move things to display only in catagory sometimes (as I will do with this whole thread soon) - but for the most part I let it go.

I would love to setup voting on this board... unfortunately that feature is broken and we've not been able to get help with it, Rusty's not been available.  I think that will change soon...  till it does, were stuck with it as it is.  When voting does start working, it'll be great - nothing will appear on the front page unless it's popular.

Regarding the content... some would say its changed, things are off topic - its gotten worse etc..

I disagree.  Go have a look at the old board and tell me the content was better then.

Some would say all the "newbies" are a problem.  

I disagree.. there is some excellent new stuff here, some excellent new users.

Regarding overunity... personally - it's my opinion that the persuit of overunity - or perpetual motion (same thing in my mind) machines is a waste of time.  Again  - that's my opinion...

The fact is, many folks either dont understand some real basic ideas and should be straightened out - or they do actually understand quite a bit but they disagree with my (our..) opinion about all this and believe it is possible, and attempt to work in that direction.  My passion here is wind power...

but this overunity stuff is a very hot topic and... if folks (many of them our customers) want to discuss it here thats fine.  Most of it will display only within catagory... which will usually be "weird science". We've got to let folks discuss that here - if anybody could see my inbox or take our phone calls they'd realize that it's a popular topic and should be discussed, and hopefully this forum will serve to discourage it's persuit.. but hard to say!

 Personally I dont think the topic of perpetual motion deserves its own catagory here.. even having it listed on the top of the page would bother me somehow.

Anyhow...  theres a bit about my opinions - our policies - why voting isnt here yet etc...

Overall it's lots of fun and I think it's great!  There will always be problems and room for improvement.

and HEY!! If you dont like the front page - then why not bookmark homebrew electricity/wind ... or something! You'll not have to worry about it then. It comes up much cleaner that way - that is what the catagories are for.

[jacquesm]

Hi Dan,

> Yes... its us - the wondermagnet guys ;-)

I figured it might be. I've been a (fair sized, check out my ordering history if you feel like) customer of yours under 'TrueTech Canada Inc', but somehow at the time I ordered my magnets I missed out on the existence of this board completely.

What is this board written in ? Maybe I can help on the software issues ?

If overunity experimenters drive your business, then more power to you Puts you right up there with PT Barnum ! Wished I had a business model like that (or maybe I do...). I think the term 'wondermagnet' is a bit of a 'magent' (sorry, couldn't resist that one) for folks that have exotic designs in mind, and do not have the neccesary background to evaluate their designs. I guess that's where we come in... Magnets are one of the oldest non-magical but oh so cool objects known to mankind and their 'mysteries' have given rise to many wild theories about energy. And, let's face it, they do appear a bit magical, even to me, and I'm hardly new to them. It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of punch these little blocks pack.

Take care there, and the software offer stands.

 Jacques.

[iFred]

Those that have their eyes and ears closed see nothing and hear nothing and are open to nothing. Even when presented several times with the truth of nature, they ignore the truth in favor of their own ignorance and continue to argue without looking at the facts and the truth.

Intolerance to others thoughts and name calling will not allow them to see what is right in front of them, we can only hope that this continues and that as long as their closed mindedness is intact that they at least deliver stability and continued ignorance to the system which keeps them blind. In this way at least they can't hurt anyone and are cornered. Check and mate. Fear will be your undoing.

Ignorance as they say is bliss.

[TomW]

Dan;

and HEY!! If you dont like the front page - then why not bookmark homebrew electricity/wind ... or something!

Since you brought it up. In my humble opinion the way things are sectioned seems to be rather loose and once again the sectioning is totally arbitrary and useless for "filtering". Not sure how to fix that, either. Properly sectioning stories was a large portion of the editing I did as well as fixing those all caps in titles and spelling fixes for those who refuse to use the spell checker.

I realize it is not easy pleasing all your customers on one forum but since you combined all your forums into this one place it sure has increased the filtering needed for my personal vision of what it should be.

Maybe it is time for some of us with less open minds on the weird science end to start a more focused forum for extracting rotational energy from nature and converting it to electricity? Would you have any issues with that? Maybe that option could entice some of the former users to return and share sensible ideas on a focused forum. Just some ideas that have been tossed around by some of the IRC crowd with bandwidth and some computer savvy. We have no desire to enter into any competition or step on your toes or anything.

Just my own thoughts and shared by a few.

T

[nobicus]

Hands up all those who have had a humourectomy??  Left turn and fall out!!!  Right now the rest of us can carry on having a little fun at each others expense - all right? Ain't life grand?!?!?!

[laskey]

You know what?  I don't mind the overunity guys.  They honestly believe in what they're doing, and I respect that.  I frankly, would love to see them do it.

The thing that really burns me, is the overunity con-artists.  The guys that don't really believe in what they're doing.  The guys that are only trying to make money from nothing.  They're selling crap, and they know it, and they're trying to fool everyone into buying it.  

That is where the "build it, test it, then let us test it" group come from.  We simply don't trust the overunity guys, because so many of them have been jerks in the past.

Cya,

Chris

[TomW]

Roamer;

Remember, this IS a rant forum.

I think you are mistaken.

This is NOT [supposed to be] a rant forum.

Your cutesy allegation the answers are "in our lap" is typical of the genre of the overunity disciples and provides absolutely no true insight. Your wanting it to be so does not make it so.

You may now consume your humus.

T

[jacquesm]

I doubt it he will get that bit. The problem here seems to be that some people are just too confused...

Pseudo science - like tarot cards, astrology adnd so on has a very long history and I'm afraid it is not going to end. However, here we have a unique opportunity to do some advanced psychological studies !

Dear Roamer,

Science is so easy:

if you're right, you 'win'

but you have to PROVE that you're right, not just say that you are right, the burden of proof lies with you, not with the skeptical (rightly so in my nsho) recepients of the fruits of your mind.

proving is easy too, simply show the working device along with an explanation of how it works so we can duplicate it. That's called peer review.

then, after we duplicate it and your device works as advertised (it will, won't it ?) you get an invitation to Stockholm.

But don't jerk me around (or anyone else for that matter) with 'you're too stupid to see' and 'you've already shown us' and so on. That sort of ticks me off.

I'll hold anybody to the same standard of proof, but those are the rules of the game. No exceptions. If you REALLY had this figured out you wouldn't be ranting on this forum (oh, sorry so this was a RANT forum, I figured it was something entirely different but never mind), you'd be raking in the dough.

[devoncloud]

I joke and kid about this subject as much as I can, because even someone like me that knows so little about the subject can see how many "laws of man" you must overcome in order to make over unity a reality. That does not mean that I do not cherish the unity posts however.  I love reading them when they are on topic and actually have some scientific knowledge behind the idea. I try to learn something new every day, and I usually can find that something right here on this board.

Ifred, I think you are taking this too seriously man.  If you prove us "non-believers" wrong, I would be the first one to bow down to your wisdom and marvel in your creation and congradulate you with all of my heart, if you would allow me to.  It is nothing personal.  Not too long ago I posted a topic about hydrogen production as a way to store power, and this whole board chewed me a new one on the idea!  I did not take offense!  In fact it was fun!  

Look, most every one of the people on this site, me included, is a "kook".  Most live out in BFE out in the middle of nowhere, work on things most would consider "junk" and turn it into something that harnesses nature's strength for our own purposes.  I am not one that lives out in BFE yet, but yearn for it and am making plans to do so as soon as I can.  We certainly would not be considered "normal" by the majority in society, that is for damn sure!  There were plenty of others that were considered "Kooks", such as Einstein, Newton, Aristotle, Socrates.... the list of "kooks" goes on and on, and they all came up with revolutionary ideas that changed the face of the world or how we think about it even still today.  

So guys out there that got their feelings hurt, do not get mad that you have been called a "kook", wear it like a a badge of honor; you have some seriously powerful minds of the past in your corner.

With that said, back to having fun with this awesome post.....lol  You damn unity kooks need to get on the ball!  You sound like you are reading out of some bible or something!  You tell us that what you are saying is the gospel but you show us no proof of even progress!  SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!! (or at least a devise that will show you the money in the near future).

Thanks for reading,

Devon  fellow KOOK

P.S. I still think all you unity kooks go to STAR TREK conventions :>)