Author Topic: it you lived in the perfect world. what charge controller would u purhcase? (Read 412 times)

picmacmillan · « **on:** January 29, 2005, 02:54:24 PM »

I have turned up the heat so to speak with my local utility in the north....because of there total lack of customer service and there idiotic reasoning..so i told them to shove there meter..as it is i only use 5 kilowatts and hour of electricty, so what the h!@% do i need there bull S@#!^% for anyhow!...now, i need to expedite getting self sufficient....i will be building a new house from the ground up in the spring....i am going to run both, wind gennies and solar...i don't yet have a charge controller and would like to know, what would be a real good choice of both controller and voltage(12?48?)....i have made 2 gennies, both for 12 volt....should i stay with this or should i go to 48 volt as that is what the big guns seem to be heading towards...i would rather do a little extra work now than change everything later....so if anyone could take the time to help me design a system...thats exactly what i need to do...i am all ears and very much appreciate anyones suggestions.....pickster.

..let me give you just a pinch of what perturbes me about "hydro one"(our local utility)...i put in hydro on my property in the north just 2 years ago....there has never been hydro on this property since tyrannasaurus rex was here.....they now charge me 100 bucks for delivery of electricty per month...6 bucks to pay down the debt of the old ontario hydro(which i feel i shouldn't have to pay i didn't help accumulate it as there has bben no hydro on this property...and if they should charge me, they should charge everyone including the homeless..!), they even charged me over 500 bucks to remove my neigbors guy pole for his hydro that was in the ditch(road allowance) not my property or my pole!...it could have stayed there..i have 160 acres, they could have put my pole anywhere, but decided to pull that one out at my expense.. they even charge a delivery charge of the electricty...they won't even allow me to shut it off in the winter as i am not there for 5-6 months!....with the fact that i only used 5 kilowatt hours per day on my bill, i have to ask why not get off the grid.....i would be absolutely debt free!...i am really tired of big business bull!@%$..enough is enough...i guess after this letter i have graduated into the old fuddy dud club!..pickster

old55olds · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2005, 08:46:14 AM »

Welcome to the club. Here in alberta we have the same thing . Power is generated privately but who buys the lines and does the billing. Well guess what. It is the Epcor. Wholly owned by the city of Edmonton. My power costs approx 7 cents per Kwh but by the time it gets to me it costs another 15 to 20 cents per kwh due to the ever increasing delivery charges, administation fees, line charges etc, etc.

Right now I'm still testing .. I have a Bergy XL1, 12 - 120 watt Kyrocea solar panels, a Listeroid 12hp generator and 5 600 amp, 24 Volt forklift batteries.

The batteries were brought back to life using a desulfator as described in Homepower magazine.( Incidently the commercial ones do not seem to work as well) . I am using trace C-60 controllers and have had no problems with them at all. I hope to be off the grid this summmer.

Ken

Chiron · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2005, 09:02:15 AM »

If I lived in a perfect world I wouldn't need an inverter since my HFU (Home Fusion Unit) would give me as much clean AC as I could possibly use.......

And I thought th BS to get power here was bad. Ain't Socialism wonderful?

You mentioned only using 5kWH per day but what inverter/system you use depends on what your maximum draw would be.

I'd check into Trace/Xantrex http://www.xantrex.com/ Thier commercial products are built like the proverbial brick privvy and from what I hear they make the same quality smaller stuff.

As for wind turbines and solar arrays I'll let the folks with more experience take that part of the question

,

picmacmillan · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2005, 04:05:30 PM »

thanks chiron for the site...thats exactly what i was thinking of trace c60....ken, you said you used "contollers"..are you using more than one, and what would the price of one of these things be..i have no idea?.....pickster

Chiron · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2005, 04:33:01 PM »

Right now I don't have any AE at all, just in the planning/scrounging phase of a small wind turbine. My experience with Trace grid tie equipment is from working on the commercial turbines, 450kW to 1.5MW. Most of the big turbines use Trace/Xantrex controllers/inverters.

I'm planning on about 250W for my first wind unit and building a small grid tie inverter to dump the energy onto the grid. Grid power is so noisy around here I'm sure nobody would notice it at that power level.

ghurd · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2005, 08:44:11 PM »

Sounds like a winner. Especially if you are not there in the winter.

You could get by with maybe 1000w of solar (keep the gas setup). Wish I could do that!

Check the solar insolation and wind charts, month by month. Use figures for the worst month you expect to be there.

Get a controller bigger than what you need now. You will need it later.

Same with most things. Bigger wire to the panels. More space for batteries. Things like that.

Plan where and how the wires come into the house (my pet peeve).

I like 12v for small setups. I would say at least 24v for this big. Probably 48v.

I would consider a backup for the backup. Maybe a mini 12v PV, 105ah battery and small 12v inverter, just in case, like when the main batteries are dead and there is no gas/diesel handy. Or maybe the main inverter went poo-poo, releasing its magic smoke. 'Portable outlets' are handy for other things too.

Consider running DC around too. Even if it isn't connected

Get rid of the phantom loads. Some cordless phones or answering machines can be run straight off DC, some can't. LED night lights. Etc. This will let the inverter go into sleep mode if you don't need it, saving considerable power. (aren't you glad you have the DC?) The 48VDC/9VDC adapters are easier to make than a wind turbine.

G-

ghurd · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2005, 09:06:47 PM »

You up around Timmins? I used to fish Peter Long Lake back before it got popular, with signs, potties and such. Love the name.

I think the solar insolation is about 2.3~2.4 hours. Mine is only 1.5. Worst case average (winter).

G-

picmacmillan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2005, 12:07:53 AM »

ya ghurd i am 1 1/2 hours south of timmins...kinda anew so i don't know the lake although i go to the big town of timmins on occasion...shania twain was raised there i guess and when she went there this summer to offically open her shania twain center, i thought for sure she was gonna stop by and spend some quiet time with the old pickster

but wasn't the case

pickster

finnsawyer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2005, 10:13:25 AM »

Looks like you just high-lighted a good reason not to live in Canada, if you're going to be on the grid. To repeat, ain't socialism wonderful. Oh yeah, in my perfect world grid power would be free.

johnlm · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2005, 02:16:13 PM »

The bad boy power company is probably charging all those fees and taxes to help pay for the social programs, enjoyed by the poor homeless guys that Pic mentioned. Maybe a bunch of the folks that like that type of stuff who were threatening to move to Canada before the US election will move up there and maybe tell him he can't cut down any more trees for his log homes.

Since this post made it to the Rant page, I suppose I can say that. Might I also comment that after reading about all the trials and tribulations of the prices and availabilities and difficulty in buying things, or having to get 20 permits to put up a small windmill in some of these other countrys, the good ole USA doesn't seem too bad. Although there are places here (in or near citues) that require you to ransome your left n.. to do anything also.

Hope you get it all worked out the way you want Pic.

Johnlm

picmacmillan · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2005, 02:49:43 PM »

ya thanks for the comments there, you know i like living here, i like living in the nortt even better...mostly the serenity, and low, low taxes...you heat with wood so there is no gas bill either...the wood is free and plentiful...even if you didn't have any wood on your own property(which most do), then you can get a permit for 30 bucks and cut down 30-40 cords of wood on crown land....it is possible to buy land in the north for 2-5000 dollars candian...nice land, large acreage...my taxes are 232 dollars a year for 160 acres, right a cross the dirt road is a nice lake.i would recommend any of you to come on up and take a look for yourself, you won't be sorry you did...alot of americans also buy land there...you can't afford not to....and maybe if we can shrug off all the buerocrats, that chase you for every dollar you own, then maybe we can get a little of what the good lord promised...some peace....does anyone know what those trace controllers cost?...danb had a post the other day about some refurbs but they weren't trace i don't think....on another topic i was maybe going to get a bunch of us to come on up to my palce in the summer this year,maybe have a little re conference...in between the canoeing, camping fishing, hunting, whatever...i don't drink, but maybe have a couple cooley canadian beerski"s.....pickster

old55olds · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2005, 10:10:40 AM »

Right now I have one C-60 running on 1KWH of solar panels. I have 180 Watts of solar on the Bergy panel and another C-60 with 660 watts of solar panels being installed now. This leaves space for quite a few options. ( I never like to run things to the max) The C-60 runs approx 250. Cdn.

Ken

finnsawyer · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2005, 10:24:52 AM »

Where I live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, it's probably as nice country as where you live. The problem, as I've said before, is that the rules and regulations are destroying that quality of life. I just read that Michigan is dead last in a number of economic areas. The chickens are coming home to roost. Take away personal incentive and personal rights and that's the result.

We also have the imports from Chicago and Texas and elsewhere that want to move up here for the "quality" of life and then bring the very ills they're trying to escape. The no trespassing signs go up post haste and they build where no one should and cause unneeded stress on the infrastructure. The problem is that the bureau-crap-sy follows the population with it's rules and regulations. So, beware.

"The aim of every bureaucrat is to increase the size and importance of his domain."

picmacmillan · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2005, 08:58:12 PM »

thanks ken for the price check there....i finished paining my 2nd genny tonight....so, i am ready to give er he@#....i will look for a trace next week...pickster

iFred · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2005, 10:03:03 PM »

Congrads' you have made it the lower level of "rants and opinions", lol

My tax's have been going through the roof, I don't see any changes any time soon. nothing was added for those tax increases of more then $1500 increase in less then 5 years. Somethings amiss. as for service charges, they are more then the bill now and I forsee them tripling within the next 5 years easy. Suggestion: get off the grid while you can still afford to do so, convert whatever to solar and wind soon.

My two cents worth.

picmacmillan · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2005, 07:51:33 AM »

no johnlm...the electricty company is a seperate entity...they don't get money and they don't give it out...it doesn't pay for (health care which is good)...they are just a very loosely run company with a huge amount of waste...they don't do time management, and are very expensive...i use 22.5 cents per day of hydro....my bill is 140 dollars because of all the other charges and the pay down the debt charge....i guess they are doing just like all the other big coorporations such as burger king....you only pay $1.50 for a burger and $2.50 for fries...so they charge cheap for the main item and jack up the price of the fries and pop.... :)pickster

ghurd · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2005, 09:17:04 AM »

Might want to shop around a little more. Or get someone in the States to...Uhhh...

G-

old55olds · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2005, 11:20:39 AM »

You have to remember that the conversion rate is 1.3 roughly.

Ken

ghurd · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:47:18 AM »

Yes. Quicky search. 160 x 1.3 = 208.

G-

old55olds · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2005, 10:01:30 AM »

Yes you are right. I bought my last C-60 in August Cost 225.00 CDN plus 15.00 freight. I bought my solar panels out of seattle. Cost 4.00 per watt and 6.00 freight , brokerage , duty , etc, etc. Being a bussiness owner who purchases all supplies from the US I figure a factor of 2 times to cover the little incidentals.

If I lived on the border and could pick it up myself that would make a big difference.

Have fun

Ken

ghurd · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2005, 08:51:42 AM »

Freight was $6 PER WATT?!?! Holy &^%!

G-

John II · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2005, 05:55:47 PM »

Hello picmacmillan: In your following quote.. you got me curious about something...

" let me give you just a pinch of what perturbes me about "hydro one"(our local utility)...i put in hydro on my property in the north just 2 years ago....there has never been hydro on this property since tyrannasaurus rex was here.....they now charge me 100 bucks for delivery of electricty per month...6 bucks to pay down the debt of the old ontario hydro(which i feel i shouldn't have to pay i didn't help accumulate it as there has been no hydro on this property...and if they should charge me, they should charge everyone including the homeless..!), "

I don't understand exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that if a person had their own private Hydro plant on private property, that the utilities will charge you in some fashion for having it ?

Just curious...

John II

picmacmillan · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2005, 05:33:14 AM »

no john...they make everyone who gets electricity from them pay an extra fee per month to pay down the debt of the old electric company..i don't feel i should pay this fee per month as i had never had electricty on this particular property before to be involved in such a debt...the company is very badly mismanaged in my opinion as i know some folks who get payed there(notice i didn't say, work there)...the company hasn't done anything to rectify the situation, just changed names...still all the same beaurocrats running the show....so they say it is owned by all of us who live in this province.....so, not everyone pays for this old debt, just the hydro customers...doesn't seem like a fair deal to me as again i was probably just a gleam in my daddy's eye when this debt was occuring..if by some wild chance they became profitable; Would just they hydro customers get to share in the profits?..that would be a good question?.i believe the world is rapidly becoming a police state...everything has a price....and about the homeless, maybe that wasn't a fair analogy, as i for one am caring for the homeless and have put my money and time into the homeless on lots of occasions, but if one person living in ontario has to pay the debt, so should everyone....for a while i was unemployed also, and i still had to pay this debt?...just some points, just my view and maybe not everyones...at least here we still can have some individualism..pickster

old55olds · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2005, 09:39:22 AM »

We just got the news yesterday that there is going to be a new transmission line built from Fort McMurray down into Seattle. The total cost will be paid by the Alberta power customers. The reasoning for this is that if the power companies loose money on it and go broke the Alberta customers will not have power. Well I'm sorry. They can take there lines and shove it.

Ken

John II · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2005, 03:17:12 PM »

Thanks for the clarification pickster. That's on a similar theme to each nations supposed "national debt" which we are supposedly burdened with before birth. Amazing how some folks seem to think they have the right to charge the expense of their conveniences to those not yet born. As Grand Daddy would have said... "something taint right".

John II

News:

Author Topic: it you lived in the perfect world. what charge controller would u purhcase? (Read 412 times)