Conservation anyone ??? $$$

[mikey ny]

Hello,

     Just a quick rant about energy conservation, as if we have'nt heard enough about it already on this forum. Well, here goes. Today my daughter had her 4th basketball game, the first of which I have been able to attend. (working for a living takes too much time). My wife instructed me to drive her to the school and meet with the other bunch of parents and follow them to the school that they will be playing at. It was an away game this week. The school they are playing at is about 40 miles west of us. I asked my wife who was riding with us, she said, Just us 4. Now we have a 7 pasenger caravan that leaves 3 empty seats and a few empty laps. We proceed to follow 3 caravans, 2 4 door sedans, a large custom van, several 2 door compacs and my favorite, a 4 door 4 wheel drive chevy pickup with the V10 insignia on the fender. All had 1 2 or 3 passengers in them. I just wanted to throw up. I have been so busy working for a living and building things to use solar or alternative fuels that I completly forgot about all the other people out there that are so cluless about conservation. I clearly remember the shortages of the 70's, did all of those other people forget. Is it just me or is there a lot of ignorant people out their.

                           Mike

[nanotech]

You're not alone.

I drive 100 miles round trip every day to work in a 187,000 mile 1986 Toyota Tercel.  I also carpool with two other people.  I see people being dropped off by thier significant others in a 4X4 truck when I KNOW that they own a car.  So why are they having thier spouse drive TWO round trips in a TRUCK?!?!?!?

Or one of my coworkers driving the V-6 minivan to work (by herself) instead of the CRX she has.

I used to see it at my son's school when I'd go to pick him up.  People I KNEW had only one child driving up in a seven passenger van.  And thier spouse owns a truck.  So why do you need a van again?  Certainly not to haul things in as that's what the truck's for.  You've only got one child, so you don't need 7 seats.  Let's see, it's because you're clueless as to how much damage you're doing to the roads, the environment, and the ever dwindling supply of oil?

Gee, how selfish of me to want to push you off the road......  

[electrondady1]

hey mikey,  the last time i worked in the city i got stuck in the morning rush hour trafic jam. there must have been a million cars on the road at once all mostly empty with engines going , geting nowere for a few hours. the air was thick with exaust smoke. i had forgotten about it . this same  thing was happening in every city in the western world! twice a day! i felt like an idiot just being part of it .  the people who own oil stocks must  look at there watches an laugh at us . how long will we allow this pathetic joke to be played on ourselves.  

[dinges]

No worries mate,

when fuel prices continue to rise, more and more people must be coming to there senses. (or else become bankrupt)

I drive a Kia pride (get about 50mpg out of it), and fuel prices still hurt! Then again, I pay 1.25E/liter (1.35 E/l in NL, but I refuel in Belgium :-) ) for gasoline.  (that's about 5.6$/gallon?) most of this is taxes though. I like to support my local government >:-(

So you're still surprised Europeans generally drive smaller cars than Americans?

Was talking to a Ukrainian emigrant recently, now living in N-America (near Canadian border). I said how I liked the old Lada's we used to drive (you could repair them with a hammer! like my mother did once...). He said he was so happy with American cars, so much space. That's true. Fuel economy is another matter.

As to the other people driving 7-person vans; they may have one kid, but perhaps they double as soccer-mom vans, driving the entire team to games? Is possible, but unlikely. They may have a 'genuine' need (want), hard for you to tell. I like that people have a choice, and can choose for themselves what they drive; you have the right to disagree with their choise. You (and I) base their choice on rational factors (what do I really need?) whilst others may look at what they like (what they want). Big difference between 'need' and 'want'. Many people need transportation; few people need a Rolls Royce to drive to work. The Kia may do the job as well. So much for the 'homo economicus', calculating man, one of the basic assumptions in economic theory :-)

I hate it when other people tell me what to do or not to do; if I like driving in a 4*4 truck with 7 persons capability, even while I'm single, that's my choice. A choice that's partly influenced BTW by fuel prices... You can only spend a dollar once, either on fuel or other goodies. They get the fuel, you the other goodies (NdFeB-magnets ? ).

Generally I agree with you; but be expecting a lot more carpooling the coming years, smaller/fuel efficient cars, and less driving. Just saw it in my crystall ball...

Peter,

The Netherlands.

[Aelric]

I drive to work 60 miles round trip every day, on my shift there are only 2 others that live anywhere near where I do.  I was carpooling with one of them but he made up some lame excuse about wanting to go drinking with his buddies every night after we get off (after midnight) I told him thats fine just drop me off first, he didn't like that idea because his buddies are around where we work 30 miles from where I live, so he didn't want to carpool anymore.  The other person I wouldn't car pool with to save my life, he is extreemly dangerous, went to drug rehab (my work sent him there just a month ago) and he drives 90+ miles per hour, and he's a bit of a moocher (takes money without returning it).  I don't like seeing lights in the rear view mirror.  Sooo I am left driving back and forth myself, wish I could carpool with somebody but no other people anywhere near where I live.  When I finish getting my truck paid off am seriously going to consider moving closer.  As to what you guys have said I agree 100 percent, and I wish I could personally carpool but at the moment that isn't possible.  Anyway thats just my two bits.

[David HK]

Fortunately I am retired, unemployed and ride a bicycle (on the pavement because it,s too damn dangerous on the roads).

My wife has a car which mostly travels to Church on Sunday's and does the odd trip here and there.

Oh for an electric bicycle and car!

Happy Christmas.

Dave HK

[dinges]

Thought China was even more famous for its bikes than The Netherlands :-)

So Hong-Kong is a different matter, more like New-York, I suppose...

Peter,

The Netherlands.

[Volvo farmer]

Well said.

Natural gas prices have increased here by about 40% recently. The local wood stove dealer can't keep pipe in stock and the prices on stove pipe are rising weekly. People do seek out alternatives when the price of operating fossil-fueled gadgets increases.

I like having choices too. For some reason, I don't mind so much if I see the market price of energy increase because of economic conditions. If the government increases my taxes 40% though, I'd be throwing my hands up and screaming, though the net result would probably be the same.

[erichtopp]

No one may like this comment but.......I think fuel prices should at least double or triple right now.

Why???.......because it would make people conserve our resources (like our NON-renewable resource called oil) This would get people into Renewable Energy resources faster and lower our 4.3 BILLION North American output of Green House Gases. I don't think the oil companies are doing their part to promote RE as the prices need to go up higher to get the RE ball really rolling.

Besides once the demand for RE really gets going, theorically the cost of the commercial units should decrease as production gets into the swing of things. Think of all the jobs RE can generate!!!!!!

[sh123469]

I can sympathize with you about missing the young one's games.  I missed several of my son's football games this year due to having to work.  This was his first year playing too.  Wish I could have seen them all.

I believe a lot of the conservation problem is apathy.  People can afford to do what they are so they really could care less about making due with less even if it means not losing anything.  

My wife is a prime example.  I had to fuss for nearly 3 years to get her started turning off lights that weren't needed at the time.  Even threatened to get automatic, motion sensing switches.  I already had CF bulbs all through the house. Was amazed at the difference in the power bill just from doing that even with her leaving lights on.  I still cut my monthly bill nearly in half just by using CF lighting.

Conservation is a wonderful thing...not just for the reduction in demands on resources, but for the savings a small little bit of effort will bring us.  

I am slowly working on getting my home more energy efficient, drive a reasonably fuel efficient car that is large enough to carry my family and not way larger than we need. Would love to have a small diesel that got high mileage to go to work.  I try to make the rounds of places I need to go when I am out instead of making several single-purpose trips.

We turn down or turn off the heat when we leave the house for more than a very short trip.  I find that it helps with heating costs in my house to do this.

My parents were raised just after the depression and did what they could to conserve and be as self-sufficient as possible.  They didn't run all over town all the time.  We grew a large garden and ate and sold everything from it.  I guess I picked up a lot of habits and self-sufficiency attitude from them.  I am not a person who believes in waste.  Use what you have to and reuse what you can.  It's amazing the uses that you can make of old stuff that most would throw in the can.

People are just apathetic to doing any more conservation than they have to do to survive monetarily.  

Steve

[Dreadstar]

My 1999 Nissan Sentra GXE finally hit 24k miles. My 1997 CBR1100xx hit 60k My Carbon fiber Aluminum Bicycle has around 15k. If it fits in a backpack I ride a bike motor or pedal depending on distance. I only drive the car for big item delivery or pickups. do the math. 20-30mpg with my 1600cc 4 banger car. 35 if all city or L.A. traffic 40-45 if freeway non-peak travel on my 1100cc bike (i know it is overpowered) has more horsepower than my car does. And just water to power the bicycle. That and excess poundage on myself.

Once gas prices get over $4 a gallon i bet we see the morons in the big SUV (Such Useless Vehicles) start driving smaller ones or car pooling.

[nothing to lose]

Most people are just stupid, but sometimes there is a reason for what apears to be a gas guzzler 1 person idiot.

I got lots of vehicles and drive what I want when I want, most people do not have a choice and have to get 1 vehicle that fits all needs best they can. If I only could have 1, I geuss it would be a large gas guzzler too.

We all have to have food. Many people buy 1 days worth at a time and drive far just to get it. I try to buy everything I need for weeks or a month for non-perishables then just buy things like eggs milk bread as needed, and I still buy that as much as I think I can use before it ruins. So if I am runing around in a 9 passenger mini van alone I may be on the way to the grocery store

And before gripping too much about vehicle sizes etc.. you should look at comparable milages of vehicles. My mini van gets the same milage as most of my cars so it does not matter if I drive it or not really anyway. Unless hauling the kid and her friends somewhere there is no-one really around to be riding with me. Sometimes I do pick up a hitchhiker, does that count

The other day I had to drive my truck with probably 18MPG maybe better, wifes car had flat, couger is broke, she took my buick to work. Ok, I was guzzling gas that day I did not want to, make it worthwhile I picked up a bunch of fire wood on way home since it was on the way back, saved a trip later.

Minivan will haul small things and keep them dry in the rain. Carry alot of people when needed too. Won't pull a trailer, they have junk transmisions that go bad easy.

Full size conversion van, just a little less millage than mini van. Carries allot of people, larger items. Pulls a trailer well. Great for long trips, more RE/environment  friendly camping and eating in van than renting a hotel room and buying restarunt foods, saves the environment and money both. Carries larger items than the minivan, still dry.

Pickup trucks, got a few too.

 3 seater 3/4 ton 351 engine, no good for taking kid or freinds anywhere only 3 can ride, hauls a heavy load, pulls trailer great. Not much good off road, cargo gets wet in bad weather, not good for big city shopping, stuff gets stolen out of bed.

1/2 ton 460 engine same as other truck but a crew cab so I can haul other kids, bikes, etc.. if wanted. Much better moving heavy loads up big hills or off road with bigger engine. Not driven much, just when needed.

My new toy, 3/4ton 4X4 with factory lift, 302 multieport feul injection.

If milage sucks too bad after installing new engine it will be seldom used, mostly offroad moving non-running cars around, dragging stuff out of fields, nasty weather on dirt roads and pulling people out of ditches too. Stuff the other trucks are not so good at. If milage is same or better than my other trucks I will get rid of those and use this alot. Last winter and so far this year not much bad weather. Several years though I had to take friends in food and such because of snow, ice, really crappy dirt roads around here. People who only think day to day, daily food shopping, enough propane to last till monday etc.. then they get snow and ice bound with nothing out in the woods, duh...

 Jeep Cherokee?

 Not usd much, runs great, 4X4 for running bad roads around here in nasty weather, hauls lots of kids or food etc.. not much good for big city shopping does not haul enough to make the drive worthwhile. Not good for pulling disabled vehicles around, had a hard time in my yard moving a dune buggy with flat tires and a locked wheel, was a strain and spun too much, 4X4 truck will move it like it ain't even there.

 Hmm, if I could only have 1 vehicle what would best suit my needs? Full size conversion van body on the 4X4 truck chasis, yep that should do it. And I would probaly only be driving it 3 days a month too.

[finnsawyer]

I find it interesting that nobody has suggested the obvious solution.  Have the schools drop the inter-school athletics.  Radical, eh?  But that's the way it once was.  I suggest you people go investigate how it was in 1920.  While we can't turn the clock back completely (we're not going to roll the roads in the winter or go back to horses, for instance), we surely don't have to live the way we do today.  I guess even the people who frequent this site see what they want to see.

[Jon Miller]

You think thats bad the only car i can afford to drive due to the insurance for a 17 year old is a 1.6 1970 vw beetle, even driving kindly i only get 30 mpg THAT HURTS!!!  Its not that i dont care but i cant afford anything els!!!!

 

[pyrocasto]

I'll keep my 23mpg Ford Ranger over any other the big trucks for now. Just because I drive a truck though doesnt mean I'm not conserving, as 23mpg is much better than the usual <18mpg most trucks get. It was one of my determining factors of buying it. ;-)

[dinges]

Agree very much!

When I was young, my parents were the only ones who refused to drive me to someone's (class mate) birthday party 40+ km away; they said it was crazy, unnecessary, etc. At the time I didn't agree, but in hindsight, they were right.

Sometimes I could get a ride from someone else in my village going to the same party, and if not, I couldn't go. End of story. This was only 18 years ago, btw.

For 6 years, I rode my bicycle to school; 7km single trip, 14 km/day. Summer and winter, with heavy rain/snow/ice, etc. School didn't mind if you were a few minutes too late, all iced up, etc. :-) Now I think about it, we only had one girl in my village who regularly took the bus to school, only some days in summer she'd take the bike. We always considered the bus to be very luxurious, we'd rather use the money for other things...

Peter,

The Netherlands.

[Rowan Clearwater]

Hi

Things a bit different in the UK

Petrol prices are at £0.94p /litre, Deisel at £0.98p /litre !

My old landrover is in the process of being converted for duel fuel. - Biodiesel or Straight Veg Oil.

Unfortunately, our government doesn't like people with ideas, so we have to fill out major forms before we can legally use any and if we do, still have to pay 17p a litre tax!,plus road tax £135 a year. :-(

Still waiting for people to wake up.

[stevesteve]

A week or so ago we heard the biggest explosion in peace-time Europe. Then over the next few days watched ~5% of the UKs fuel storage burn into a huge column of smoke.

Could have run the car for a few days on that.

Now just need to wait foe the Insurance Assessor to turn up for the damage (about a mile from ground -zero on that one!)

[ghurd]

That was big news here in the US too.

I read your 1st post, then a few minutes later I saw it on TV.

G-

[ghurd]

AND our gas went up $0.10US.

[alcul8r]

Mikey,

And did you approach anyone about riding with you?  We carpooled with another family on the spur of the moment a few weeks ago.  They left their car at the turnpike parking lot and rode with us.

Lots of people might be amenable to sharing, they just don't want to impose.

And more than a few of them are sitting back grumbling because you had extra seats or didn't ride with them.

Rex

[alcul8r]

That would be a great idea, and will happen as soon as you get everyone to agree on what happens to all that extra money.

1. oil company?
   
2. Arabs?
   
3. US government?
   
4. Give it to the poor to help them buy gas?
   
5. Give it to China to help them learn to consume gas?
   

[Jon Miller]

hurm thats cheap petral went up to 90p litre down in kent UK after that explosion luckly i justed filled up, £40 for 43 or somthing litres thats a lot for me being a poor student but at least i dont have to pay any road tax :D:D:D.  Tax exempt saves me a lot of money, of to add an altornator so i can charge a 75ah deep cycle to and from school should last two days for lighting in the garage over the weekends.  I rekon this should be done as a standered mod to all cars, i know new toyotas have two batterys for all the electrics but i think a spare one for in house use would be great!!!

 

[ghurd]

Send the extra money to the US gov't, in cash,

in care of...

wait for it...

Ghurd!!!

Even if we need no gas, we still need tires, oil, grease, plastic, paint...

[ghurd]

Students don't pay road tax?  In US, buy gas= pay road tax, unless it is delivered to personal tanks with an exemption ('here' at least).