Otherpower.com could use a facelift

[scottsAI]

I must say I'm very disappointed in the TONE of the posts here.

A person makes what they think is a good suggestion and you have made it personal.

This should be unacceptable.

I have talked to couple ex forcefield people. Here is what they said

"do not like the closed minds they find here."

I come to these web pages to learn, see new innovative ideas.

When the ideas don't agree with your version of reality some of you will insult them to death.

An idea is an idea

How long you have been on this board does not make your ideas any better or worse.

Who you are does not make your ideas any better or worse.

Need I go on?

My first month as an engineer, I attended a meeting of 20 most senior engineers. They had been meeting weekly for 6 months on a problem that was costing our company lots of money.

45 minutes into the meeting I told them how to make the problem go away without any cost.

The meeting was terminated, the idea was implemented. Nobody ever said anything to me about it.

I ultimately had to leave the company because these same engineers were back stabbing me.

I too have been insulted with my ideas and suggestions here, I have think skin.

Looking at the top of this web page are three graphics, another is at the bottom of the page.

Looks to me, like we have reverted back to before last summers behavior.

And then I though things were getting nicer here.

Disappointed,

Scott.

[asheets]

I'll just add my $.02 here as a 15-year network professional and IT instructor...

The graphic is nice, works well in 8-bit color, and looks scalable.  But, the dimensions don't quite fit with the current setup of the sites, and the "hook" is incorrect.  That alone makes a lot of work for the sysops -- time that I'd rather see them spending on working on turbine designs and RE.

Plus, I'm of the school that "simpler is better", as well as being a devotee of the basic (not the one we actually see today) Microsoft web style guide, because all sites that follow those guidelines are actually viewable over a 9.6kbps analog line in a reasonable amount of time.

When I teach my students about basic website design, my textbook is "Web Sites That Suck."  Fieldlines, Otherpower, Wondermagnet, and the other related "Dans" sites will never make that book, and I like it that way.  

And another thing I've noticed over my career that a lot of web sites (and programs with GUIs, in general) are designed NOT for functionality, but as resume builders.  I'm not personally accusing you of this.  But my observation is that RE enthusiasts are conservative by nature -- and WILL tend to lean toward this opinion.

[jimovonz]

Although I'm not a graphic designer, I do know about digital image storage formats. The image you have presented is not particularly suited to the jpeg format you have used. Aside from using 24b/pixel to encode what is essentially four colours, the DCT applied by jpeg compression yeilds the best results when applied to images containing continuous colour gradients. Your image contains no gradients (antialiasing aside) and is formed from solid blocks of colour. The GIF format would do a good job on this image and has the advantage of being lossless. The large areas of solid colour compress well using RLE and by restricting the palette you can gain further. The very same 600x257 image can be 10k using 8 colours (preserving antialiasing on the edges, and can be reduced to 6k if you do with out). I won't risk stiring up some of the others by posting the same image again twice inline here but I'm sure your capable of testing this out for yourself!

[Norm]

Thanks ...but no thanks Claude if it ain't broke

don't fix it....

 I like it just the way it is...

        ( :>) Norm.

[gotwind2]

I disagree, I dabble with logo style graphics, it certainly does create a visual 'stamp' on the brain.

Claudes logo, is o.k, I have moved it around to my personal taste - it is now a mere 2.75 Kb gif, the same as my signature logo below, (Fieldlines will probably stretch it)- I think even narrow band can handle that.

[zubbly]

hey claude,

do a really good nude.  everyone will want more graphics  

zubbly

[claude]

Dear members,

I'm glad I made this post. It seems I rounded up here many people that really contributed to this site. Unlike me. I'm a newbie. I read all day this board and learn a lot. I haven't built any wind turbine yet, but it's not because I don't want to. But that's another story.

Seeing all your opinions helps me take the pulse of this community. It's not a community you can join and after 6 months think you can help them with something. No. You have to earn your right to speak your mind. Too bad. I don't know about you but here democracy still gives you the right to speak. "Let No Good Deed Go Unpunished" seems to be true sometimes.

I'm a graphic designer and I work in printing industry. My specialty is corporate identity. The crappy logo up here was made in exactly 20 minutes and was intended to be a simple sketch to better illustrate my idea. It isn't optimized for the web, correct either and I would't give it away as a final product. Guess what, I never made a website. Ironic, isn't it? I'm much too busy doing magazines, books and such. My help was offered to make otherpower.com brand stand out more. I think it deserves that. Despite the offending tone of some answers I got, my offer still stands.

I'm sorry if I offended some of you with my ideas. It wasn't my intention. I have too much respect for what you do. As someone advised me, I'll grab a beer and relax. Here's to you all! Cheers!

Claude

[claude]

Dear members,

I'm glad I made this post. It seems I rounded up here many people that really contributed to this site. Unlike me. I'm a newbie. I read all day this board and learn a lot. I haven't built any wind turbine yet, but it's not because I don't want to. But that's another story.

Seeing all your opinions helps me take the pulse of this community. It's not a community you can join and after 6 months think you can help them with something. No. You have to earn your right to speak your mind. Too bad. I don't know about you but here democracy still gives you the right to speak. "Let No Good Deed Go Unpunished" seems to be true sometimes.

I'm a graphic designer and I work in printing industry. My specialty is corporate identity. The crappy logo up here was made in exactly 20 minutes and was intended to be a simple sketch to better illustrate my idea. It isn't optimized for the web, correct either and I would't give it away as a final product. Guess what, I never made a website. Ironic, isn't it? I'm much too busy doing magazines, books and such. My help was offered to make otherpower.com brand stand out more. I think it deserves that. Despite the offending tone of some answers I got, my offer still stands.

I'm sorry if I offended some of you with my ideas. It wasn't my intention. I have too much respect for what you do. As someone advised me, I'll grab a beer and relax. Here's to you all! Cheers!

Claude

[JW]

I agree with ScottsAI,

 tHIS IS kinda tough critisizm for the whole lot.

I look at this as someone/claude has probably learned a great deal from this site and is probably just excited. I have published a site. The logo grafhics do help Its certianly not an insult to offer ones expertise, but granted must of us here offer it in a more AE/RE type of way.

Oh well, Im going to settle down with my favorite beverage...

JW

[luckeydog]

I think it is a great idea. nothing wrong with a little eye candy... maybe make the graphics as a visual tool.

Thanks Claude You are a positive member of this website.

Bryan

[Titantornado]

Well, I'm with you Claude.  I didn't see a need for the hostile attacks, and I like the logo.  I found it quite respectable of you that you made the offer to the board. (which was simply that, an offer, which didn't deserve the attack you received)  Apparently, I too, don't have the "seniority" to speak my mind without attack (TomW) but will concede to the desires of the elders, hence my signature line change.

[DanG]

A truly noble person would've sent DanB a snail mail letter with sample graphics on a mini-cd with a signed release for the parent company to enjoy sole copyright protection of any/all intellectual property communicated in the letter, thusly had one actually been selected you'd have that warm fuzzy feeling w/o looking like a circus carney yelling over the crowds heads selling something...

[outback]

not all good things in life are free, i haven't been to the doctor yet.hey guys ease up a bit were all just guest on this site. some of us are better at welding or winding coils or something else some of you probly run a puter better then some one else, but i think 99% of us are here to learn.

[craig110]

I agree.  The personal attacks just shouldn't be happening.  So what if he hasn't built a turbine yet - does that mean he is disqualified from having an expressible opinion on anything?  Please just say "no thanks and here is why" (the dial-up speed that many users of this site are stuck with is a reasonable reason) without getting into the personal attacks.

[vawtman]

 Oh goodness,

 Couldnt it just be, Claude thanks for your thoughts will look into it.

[kenputer]

I thought it was a nice of you to offer and a simple no, but thanks for asking would

 have been a better responce from those that disagreed.

Ok kids back to your rooms now.

[RUFUS]

Ya'll Be Nice To Claude Or I'm Gonna

Sic East TEXAS ON The Bunch Of Ya !

                              Rufus

[JW]

I think the results to the poll Claude attached? are in. Nevertheless we should all check the speed of our draw, because last I checked quick draw/magraw had killroys nuts in a vice...

 Or visae versay. Whatever, I heart my favorite beverage. Yes its MountainDew, which bytheway is not OSHA approved, come to think about it niether are these sunglasses. TIME FOR DINNER

JW

[claude]

Yes Dan, I forgot to mention. Wether this makes me a noble person or not I don't know. My offer is free of charge of course. I'd never take money from friends. I frequently make pro bono stuff. I should have mentioned that in the first post. That way maybe some people wouldn't have treated me like a salesman.

Claude

[Jerry]

Hi Scott.

I agree with you on the personal atacks. I mentioned a couple days ago that I was not concerned about spelling here. That I miss-spell words myself. Tom W said the same thing in the same thred yet he didn't take any heat.

My excuse was I'm to busy to keep close watch on my spelling. I didn't know it up till then but I'm aparently a bad person.

I thought I was just in a rush and sharing what I'm doing with wind power. Turns out I'm one of those lazy Americans.

When posters from other countrys miss- spell here I don't critisize, I understand and just try to help the out. Its a double standard I think?

OH about the board. For me just leave it the way it is. Change confuses me.

Mabe Claudes skills with computer stuff could help in some individuals  with the personal computer projects, DONO?

Tom W watch your back. You made that coment about spelling not that important. They may come after you next.

                        JK TAS Jerry

[zap]

I like zubbly's idea!!!

[WindHarvester]

Hi Claude,

Wonderful idea but I and many think the simpler the better.

If we really want to improve the site how about getting rid of all wdyasq's porn stored in his files, I'm sure that would free up some bandwidth ;-)

Lonnie in Ohio

"Pervert's bother me"

[WindHarvester]

DanB, DanF and all the folks at Otherpower, why do you continue to allow this guy to edit your site?

TomW that is.

He clearly reflects a bad image on your company.

Lonnie from Ohio

[Titantornado]

Alright!  Let's go back to all text websites!  We can be like super retro, back to 1987.  Heck, I can toss my 1.5Ghz laptop, and dust off the Commodore 64 with monochrome monitor and 1200 baud modem. (even though it's a power hungry beast)

P.S.- perhaps we could all ditch Windows (or Linux, or whatever you're running) and go back to strictly DOS prompts.

Seriously, we're were only talking about a small file for the main Otherpower website.  Heck, the first four images on the page before you even get to text total 55Kb.  Claude's image is only 29Kb.  In either case, even on dialup, such small files are a mute point anyhow.  Definitely not deserving of the berating dished out.

I thought we were past this behavior.

[done venting]

[jimjjnn]

BAD IMAGE??? Not hardly. Tom is doing a great job here. This forum was set up by common everyday people that wanted to share ideas and experience with other people around the world and I feel they have done that with a minimum of cost and ability.

They have succeeded when other sites with all the high paid people have gone by the wayside. Tom is one of the people that helps make this forum what it is.

TOM, KEEP DOING IT YOUR WAY !!!!!!!

This site is GREAT !!!!!!!

[Bruce S]

Claude;

   I read with great interest the posts. I have not been able to post here for some time during work hours do to shooting my mouth off at a person who needed to be put in their place here at work.

I will not line item those who attacked you, they know who they are.

IMHO: what you offered was nice. I thought it to be a nice jesture and nothing more.

I am sure it could've been better worded so as not to "offend" those others ,but what the heck. From where I am we too still believe in freedom of speach, and since this is the R&O section . It is the perfect place to exercise them. I also believe that if you had truely offended the owners of this forum you would not have been able to log back in.

I also do not believe that you need to "earn" the right to add to discussions. Just as one part puts it write while having a smile on your face not a smirk.

My first post about making Alky for my old '81 F100, and using it at 160P right after the 1st run was not received too well by others, however during that time I was able with better information explain and to some part point out that it had already been done by Mother-Earth-News.

So on and so forth.

My offer to you would be not to get too thick skined by attacks from some here, most everyone has a bad bay our to and others come off attacking but don't really mean to.

Sit back have a good read, enjoy the huge amount of knowledge that is here, and add your thoughts whenever you feel you want to.

That is what makes this forum work so well, the more people looking at a problem the quicker the solutions.

As to a bow to "full discloure" which as become the buzz word in the media now-a-days.

We have 6 T1 linked here and I have a premimum DSL at home, so if graphics where added I would not even notice the slow down.

However I do test my Linux Laptops with a dialup and usually link to this site for display purposes and could see where a 33.6K modem would get bogged down.

Cheers

Bruce S

PS I am typing this from a tested IBM thinkpad 380Z 233mhz 4gig HD 32Meg RAM using Vector linux and a 56K modem. that is headed to BTH & bound for Fiji:--)

 

[behoof]

Go Zubbly... great idea...

Anyway, Claude, nice jesture but as DanG said doing it quietly might have been a better option. Nice design though. I've been around here for just a little while now and have to say that I can't think of one site I've ever been to that has given me so much free knowledge and usable advice. What's really super IMHO is that not only are the successes shared but the failures as well, makes for quite a learning experience.

On that note, I'd say your offer, altruistic or not has certainly become a bit of a learning experience.

JMHO,

behoof

[pyrocasto]

Well at least we know that everyone here is still alive. Dang this thread got some replies!

[stop4stuff]

Claude, do you mean http://www.otherpower.com could do with a facelift or this site, http://www.fieldlines.com ?

Fieldlines is fine as it is, could use an edit feature for posts & thats it... www.otherpower.com is a commercial enterprise that seems to be doing well, after all, Otherpower.com is why we can post on fieldlines

[claude]

I meant otherpower.com, just as the "logo" says. I know it's a commercial enterprise and i'm grateful for what they're doing with fieldlines.com. I thought that would help them look bettere in a commercial way. You know, sell more, look nicer... I'm not preaching here to change the way the board looks, although, as you said, things can be done here too without altering its present features.

But as otherpower.com is present as a headline on each page of this board, that would improve (at least that's my opinion, clearly) the overall look too.

So perhaps some people from otherpower.com, the commercial enterprise we all appreciate, will decide it's in their best interest to be properly presented as a brand to their potential customers and will contact me. Until then, keep up the good work!

[Nothing40]

I've been mostly lurking here,for a year or two now..

The one killer thing I've noticed,like behoof said:

"What's really super IMHO is that not only are the successes shared but the failures as well, makes for quite a learning experience."

This place is THE resource for RE info,and if you can't find it-Ask! You guys know so much about this stuff it makes my dang head spin! Lots of impressive,and inspiring projects and ideas also.

About the site..Yea,it's a little plain,but ever since I joined I understood the need for a "slimline" site,so the people on slower connections could still navigate easily.

(being a 56K'er myself,untill a few months ago.)

I don't think the addition of a graphic or two will make a huge difference in loading times,provided the files are a 'reasonable' size.

I kinda like Claude's graphic..sure it's technically a wind-mill and not a wind-turbine,etc,etc.

But it's got the right "look" to it for a site like this,IMO.

It's simple,not too flashy,and it's got the right content: sun,tower,mill -what more do ya need in a pic?

Mebbe gotwind2's graphic..even smaller and simpler.

But,it's ultimatly Dan's decision to make.

Cut Claude a little slack guys,he's a -graphic- guy,what -else- is he gonna do?

He's probably like one of us..he saw an opportunity to 'feed his addiction' to graphics design,and maybe help out the site.

We'd do the same if we thought we could help someone with an RE-related issue!

(Who doesn't want to go play with wires,batteries,and windmills? Oh,right,but -we- aren't normal people!)

Keep the power flowin!

[Gordy]

Lonnie,

I didn't know it (porn) was there till you pointed it out. Yah I had to check it out, there's alot of crap there that belongs on his home computer, and not on this site.

Gordy

[stop4stuff]

I have opinions about websites too and I have designed websites for companies. I find the most tactful way is to approach the website owners (using whois.org to find details) and suggest their website may increase stickability if they have certain features, graphics etc... I also have the uncanny ability to hear bats... ooops sidesliped... the uncanny ability to understand search eninges and how to rank highly (this site doesn't need that).

So my approach is to contact the website owners directly, show them a website style that may compliment their business and point them to google with my ranking acheivements... some understand & take up the offer, but mostly the info i send goes ignored (& it doesn't bother me... their loss)

My next project... KickAssMagnets.com

paul