Author Topic: Legislative threat to US wind development  (Read 711 times)

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mukunthko

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2007, 03:43:04 PM »
hmm The war in iraq, Oil prices at 70$ a barrel and no wind power in the grid. Smell somethin fishy?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 03:43:04 PM by mukunthko »

shagy

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2007, 03:46:29 PM »
i do know that it kills fish at the intake from the river and spews warm water back in to replace the cold water it took out
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 03:46:29 PM by shagy »

Norm

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Ridicule the best defense
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2007, 04:53:55 PM »
Some of our best comedians could really do a

'number' on ones like Rahall ...

How many times have you seen Jay Leno ruthlessly

critisize the goverment...

It needs to be ridiculed get Rahall in the

limelight where everone will notice...

               ( :>| Norm
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 04:53:55 PM by Norm »

Hilltopgrange

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2007, 06:00:17 PM »
I wonder how many birds are killed by cars, trucks,trains and aircraft? are they going to ban them, come to think of it a bird flew into our bedroom window last week!I hope they don`t ban windows!


I wonder where they get their figures from?


Play them at their own game and collect real world statistics!


A worldwide poll about bird kills on the front page of this site could be a good start.


I`m not in the States myself but I can foresee the UK doing the same.


Russell

« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 06:00:17 PM by Hilltopgrange »
How many windmills do I have to build to become a windmillologist?

zap

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2007, 08:28:26 PM »
http://www.writemein.org/  Might be a start.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 08:28:26 PM by zap »

shagy

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2007, 08:45:26 PM »
last spring i hit 7 birds that were flying with my truck does that mean i shoudnt drive
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 08:45:26 PM by shagy »

Tritium

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2007, 07:27:47 AM »
Here is my take if this is passed. I own 2500 acres of farm/ranch land. I have a legal right to eliminate by whatever means necessary any animals that have a negative economical impact on my operations. If this idiot action passes then I would be negatively impacted by the bird population on my property. I would then install or contract to have installed some of those very tall "rotary bird killing machines" (windmills to you and me) to control the new "bird problem" on my property. Simple, Efficient and totally within the law.:)


Thurmond

« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 07:27:47 AM by Tritium »

Sparky01

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2007, 08:50:13 AM »
I had I nice writeup on this but lost it because it would not let me post!!!Subject is too long (max is 50 characters). Becoming organized and using all our resorces to be seen by these people as a force to be reconed with. Use the large companys like Southwest Windpower and others to make the point that this will NOT be accepted!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 08:50:13 AM by Sparky01 »

Slingshot

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2007, 08:55:13 AM »
Something tells me that Ted Kennedy is secretly behind this.  He's fighting tooth and nail to prevent wind turbines from being installed near his property.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 08:55:13 AM by Slingshot »

paradigmdesign

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2007, 09:56:37 AM »
That would not be such a big deal if he did not think the entire east coast was his property.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 09:56:37 AM by paradigmdesign »

paradigmdesign

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2007, 03:44:07 PM »
"I wonder how many birds are killed by cars, trucks,trains and aircraft? are they going to ban them, come to think of it a bird flew into our bedroom window last week!I hope they don`t ban windows!"


1 in 10,000 birds that are killed due to man are killed by turbines; Clean windows, house cats, cars, power lines and cell towers are to blame for the other 9,999.


p.s. Even if the numbers of turbines rose dramaticially, the number would still stay below 1 of 10,000.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 03:44:07 PM by paradigmdesign »

hgp

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2007, 10:09:07 PM »
Lets not kid ourselves the biggest threat to wildlife populations the world over has been habitat destruction.If man was really interested he would undo the damage caused by the filling in of wetlands and swamps and to stop deforestation. To now suggest that the odd windmill is going to have an impact on birds and wildlife is a hypocrite. What a joke, who do they think they are kidding.

 Herman

     
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 10:09:07 PM by hgp »

finnsawyer

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2007, 08:20:19 AM »
Yeah, as long as they didn't generate any electricity.  Water pumpers, the output of which flows into a small cattle pond and from there to a small hydro generator?  Of course, they will control the amount of water that you take from the ground too.  I suspect that they will have to give permits for research.  So, everyone will be doing research.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 08:20:19 AM by finnsawyer »

jmk

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2007, 04:34:46 PM »
 I couldn't ever understand how a bat with radar could run into such a big or small turbine. They can see a mosquito with their radar and turn on a dime to eat it. Hell, tall trees in the wind would be of a greater concern then.  Another thing I was thinking about the migration bird issues and turbines. I think they will learn to fly above, or around them after a year or two. Even if they fly through. It would be a minimal number of casualties I would think. Nothing that would kill them off to extinction, or even compare to being a predator. The only real issue I can understand is the shadow cast of the blades hitting residential or business areas.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 04:34:46 PM by jmk »

paradigmdesign

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2007, 04:46:21 PM »
"Simple, Efficient and totally within the law.:)"


That statment would be true IF turbines were good at killing birds.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 04:46:21 PM by paradigmdesign »

radiantboy

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2007, 11:14:00 PM »
The National Audubon Society recently endorsed Wind energy, with one caveat -- namely that the turbines not be in the path of major bird migratory paths.  The wind farm  at Altamont Pass near San Francisco is said to be the worst-sited wind farm ever built, and many claim (including the Audubon Society) that it has decimated the California raptor population.  




Fortunately, that is the exception, and not the rule, which is why the Audubon Society has endorsed Wind Energy.  


Turbines by individuals probably have almost no effect (especially, as many stated, compared to plate glass windows.  I live in a ranch-style house with HUGE plate glass windows, and I have to keep the draperies closed year around to prevent birds from killing themselves {the draperies are diaphanous, however, and allow plenty of light and a somewhat compromosed view through them}. Since I started this business of keeping the draperies closed about three years ago, I haven't seen any dead birds. I grew up in this house and, when I was a kid  my family and I used to find dead or stunned birds all the time at the foot of these windows.  It is no joke.)





I also understand that as commercial turbines get bigger, they move slower and thus prevent even less of a hazard to birds than previously.  Likewise, newer commerical turbines use straight poles as mounts.  Without scaffolding, birds have nowhere to light upon, and injuries/fatalities are thus even further minimized.  (I wonder if this congress-person understands these things, or cares).





In any case, I have sent the email to my congress-person as requested.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 11:14:00 PM by radiantboy »

thyristor

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2007, 04:17:31 PM »
you're right!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 04:17:31 PM by thyristor »

thyristor

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2007, 04:22:51 PM »
It looks like the same situation as with the death of the electric car!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 04:22:51 PM by thyristor »

Hoskald

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Re: Legislative threat to US wind development
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2007, 05:14:15 PM »
OK guys...I've read the bill and now have given my elected pols a sound and reasoned piece of my mind on why I will vote against them if they vote to enact this bill.  The full text of the bill can be found in my files, R 2337 IH.doc, but the pertinent sections is Subtitle D, Sec 231 and Sec 232 which lays it all out.



Subtitle D--Ensuring Safety of Wildlife With Respect to Wind Energy


SEC. 231. STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS.


 0. (a) In General- Within 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary, acting through the Director and after public notice and opportunity to comment, shall promulgate regulations that establish minimum standards for siting, construction, monitoring, and adaptive management that must be satisfied by all wind projects to avoid, minimize, and mitigate adverse impacts on migratory birds, bats, and other wildlife.


 0. (b) New Wind Projects- Such standards shall, for all wind projects that have not been constructed before the date of enactment of this Act, include at a minimum the following:


 0. (1) PRECONSTRUCTION SURVEYS- Requirements for comprehensive preconstruction surveys that are of sufficient duration and scope to reasonably evaluate the extent to which a particular site is used by migratory birds, bats, and other wildlife, including species listed as endangered species or threatened species under section 4 of the Endangered Species Act of 1973(16 U.S.C. 1533) and the potential cumulative impact that a proposed wind project would have on such wildlife in combination with other existing or proposed wind projects. Such requirements shall provide that surveys must be carried out by scientific teams that include independent scientists and that the Director may obtain reasonable access to the proposed construction site to ensure that survey protocols are being properly developed and implemented.


 0. (2) SITING- Standards for siting wind projects for which construction has not begun so as to avoid impacts, including cumulative impacts, on birds, bats, and other wildlife to the greatest extent practicable based on data gathered during preconstruction surveys required under paragraph (1), including--


 0. (A) the avoidance of ecologically sensitive areas of importance to wildlife, such as migration corridors, wetlands, and other habitats where wildlife congregate; hibernation, breeding, and nursery areas; and critical habitats of endangered species and threatened species, and


 0. (B) siting and configuring wind turbines to avoid landscape and other features known to attract wildlife.


 0. (3) CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATION- Requirements for the construction and operation of wind projects so that they minimize impacts on birds, bats, and other wildlife to the greatest extent practicable, including by--


 0. (A) incorporating the best available technology for minimizing such impacts, and


 0. (B) operating such projects in a manner that minimizes impacts on birds, bats, and other wildlife.


 0. (4) POST-CONSTRUCTION MONITORING- Requirements for thorough post-construction monitoring of the actual impacts, including cumulative impacts, that wind projects are having on birds, bats, and other wildlife, including standards and protocols for transmitting all monitoring data and findings to the Director for consideration of cumulative impacts and dissemination to the public. Such requirements shall provide that monitoring must be carried out by scientific teams that include independent scientists, and that the Director may obtain access at any time to the site to ensure that monitoring protocols are being properly developed and implemented.


 0. (5) ADAPTIVE MANAGEMENT- Requirements for adaptive management of wind projects if the impacts of such projects on birds, bats, and other wildlife exceed predicted impacts, including requirements that a wind project operator shall--


 0. (A) take steps to reduce such impacts to the levels predicted prior to operation; or


 0. (B) suspend operations if such steps are not, or cannot be, taken.


 0. (6) OFFSET OF UNAVOIDABLE IMPACTS- Requirements that wind projects offset any unavoidable impacts, including cumulative impacts, on birds, bats, and other wildlife through the acquisition, conservation, or restoration of mitigation habitat, the funding of research that will be of value in conserving affected wildlife, and other appropriate measures.


 0. (c) Existing Projects- Such standards shall, for all wind projects that have begun operation before the date of enactment of this Act, include at a minimum appropriate requirements for monitoring, adaptive management, and offset of unavoidable impacts mitigation for adverse impacts on birds, bats, and other wildlife, consistent with paragraphs (4) through (6) of subsection (b).


SEC. 232. CERTIFICATION OF COMPLIANCE.


 0. (a) Certification Requirement-


 0. (1) IN GENERAL- No person may construct or operate a wind project unless the Director has issued a certification that the project will be constructed and operated in compliance with the standards promulgated under section 231.


 0. (2) APPLICATION- Paragraph (1) shall apply--


 0. (A) in the case of a wind power project that began operating before the date of enactment of this Act, beginning at the end of the 180-day period beginning on the date the Director promulgates regulations under subsection (b); and


 0. (B) in the case of a wind power project that has not been constructed before the date of enactment of this Act, beginning on such date of enactment.


 0. (b) Applications-


 0. (1) IN GENERAL- Within 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Director, after public notice and opportunity to comment, shall promulgate regulations that establish procedures for issuing certifications under this section.


 0. (2) CONTENTS- Such regulations shall--


 0. (A) include requirements for submitting an application for certification under this section, including requirements for the contents of such applications;


 0. (B) provide for advance public comment on each application for certification and on the conditions that should be attached to such a certification; and


 0. (C) require that such applications address in detail how the project will be constructed and operated in compliance with all applicable standards promulgated under section 231.


 0. (c) Renewal of Certification- Regulations under subsection (b) shall--


 0. (1) require that each certification under this section must be renewed at least once every three years;


 0. (2) establish procedures and requirements applicable to such renewal applications; and


 0. (3) provide for advance public notice and comment regarding each application for renewal.


SEC. 233. PENALTIES.


 0. A person who violates this subtitle or a regulation issued under this subtitle is subject to a fine of not more than $50,000, or imprisonment of not more than one year, or both.


SEC. 234. RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER STATUTES.


 0. Nothing in this subtitle affects the application of the Endangered Species Act of 1973, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, the Bald Eagle Protection Act, the Golden Eagle Protection Act, the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1973, National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, or any other relevant Federal law to wind projects.


SEC. 235. DEFINITIONS.


 0. As used in this subtitle:


 0. (1) DIRECTOR- The term `Director' means the Director of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, or a designee of that Director.


 0. (2) INDEPENDENT SCIENTIST- The term `independent scientist' mean a scientist who is not an employee of, or regular consultant to, the wind power industry.


 0. (3) SECRETARY- The term `Secretary' means the Secretary of the Interior.


0. (4) WIND PROJECT- The term `wind project' means any project in the United States that uses wind to generate electric power.



The key to this is Sec 235. Definitions, 0.(4) WIND Project.  This means any wind powered source of electrical generation.  


Given our current energy requirements and what this will do to the fledgling alt power industry as well as the impact on individual rights.


Fight on!

Cheers,

Hos

« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 05:14:15 PM by Hoskald »