Author Topic: Got my second solar panel today!  (Read 5879 times)

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juiced

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Got my second solar panel today!
« on: November 01, 2004, 03:14:10 PM »
So... seeing as three days went by (albeit quite over-cast) and my power-pack didnt even budge from red to yellow; I decided to get something a little bigger.


  5 watts 250 MA.


  Now, how long to charge the 400 amp power pack?


  Should i mount this one in my car or on my building? It is weatherproof.. I guess i would need to build a small bracket for it.


  I was thinking that if i mounted on the roof, i could incorperate the mounting frame with some sort of water heating... i just dont know what i could expect for heat and how i could use what i assume to be a small amount of hot water.


 Moving ahead in anycase.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 03:14:10 PM by (unknown) »

old55olds

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2004, 03:37:20 PM »
5 watts is the amount of power used by one light in a string of the medium sized christmas light. I would think forever to charge your battery pack
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 03:37:20 PM by old55olds »

opampca

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2004, 04:07:10 PM »
Well, you have to get the Amp/hour rating of the battery in your power pack. It could be in the order of 16 A/H, then you would need 16AH /.250AH = 64 hours of full sun to charge your system, depending on how deep it is discharged. In Montréal we are getting approx 3 to 4 hours a day of full sun, thow, it could take from 16 to 21 days to fully charge the pack. You also have to consider the internal resistance of the battery, depending on the type of battery.  The battery will loose charge everyday. These panels are often just enough to keep a large battery charged all the time.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 04:07:10 PM by opampca »

BT Humble

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2004, 04:15:07 PM »
Realistically, you need at least 10 watts of solar panel if you want to be able to run a single 8W fluoro for 4-5 hours per day.  I have a pair of 10W amorphous panels for the small 12V system in my van, which gives me enough power to run two 8W fluoros for 3 hours per night, a smallish "boom box" stereo for an hour or two, my cell phone charger a couple of times a week, and a 20W incandescent light while I'm cooking (about 20 minutes per night).  This is all attached to a 38Ah battery.


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/9/19/16327/4685


For experimentation purposes your 5W panel will be fine, but bear in mind that you won't be running much more than a reading light and/or radio from it.


Incidentally, I'll bet that your 400A power pack has about a 16Ah battery inside it.  400A is the peak current they claim it can deliver - for about 5 seconds.


BTH

« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 04:15:07 PM by BT Humble »

juiced

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2004, 08:18:10 PM »
So.. if i want to be productive about this, i should get a smaller battery and choose two small item i.e. radio and perhaps an LED string?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 08:18:10 PM by juiced »

ghurd

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2004, 08:36:18 AM »
Yes.

Radio, not stereo.

LEDs for a night light, or tiny spot light (reading, etc).


A friend is using a 5w for a house full of kids (4) with 3 and 6 string LED lights and 7ah batteries. They use them first thing in the morning, last thing at night, few minutes getting dressed, reading, etc. It is 'almost' keeping up, but sometimes the 20w panel has to help. There is always a battery charging on the 5w panel.

The 5w is not mounted. Its leaning against the foundation where grass often covers 5-10%.


He is going to get 'The Tin 003' wind genny, if we ever get it done (stator construction problems yesterday). He will get more out of it than I will. He's got better wind anyway.


By bigger is better, I meant 50w. I think thats about where the watts are enough to really do something.


G-

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 08:36:18 AM by ghurd »
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juiced

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Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2004, 01:36:28 PM »
Seems to go between black, reddish and blueish...... also, its not all uniform, it almost looks like stress patterns.


    I hope its not busted or something.


   

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 01:36:28 PM by juiced »

ghurd

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Re: Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2004, 03:43:03 PM »
Solid almost almost black is often single crystal (pricy).

Solid blue is often single crystal.

Blue and silver flakes (cracked blue ice) is poly/multi crystaline.

The above are usually in squares you can see, with small stripes going 90' to flat silver wires you can see. Multi/poly is most common. Last longer in my opinion.

Maybe 12x12" for 5w, with some wasted space. $60 to $100 maybe.


Amorphous silicon looks like 'crap brown' paint on the other side of the glass with one set of stripes going the same way, but no wires. (look at you solar calculator) Can look fading brown to blue to orangish. But the colors fade into each other. Short lived and more suscepable to overheating, etc. in my opinion.

Maybe 16x16" for 5w, with no wasted space (all 'painted' frame to frame). $50 to $60, almost always on sale for $40 at the mail order junk store we all love.


What I've seen, you can see a crack. It looks just like a crack.


Sounds like amorphous. Fine for small PVs. For a big one, I only go crystaline (single or multi).


G-

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 03:43:03 PM by ghurd »
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juiced

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Re: Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2004, 04:44:47 PM »
Hopefully this link works, this is exactly what i have:


http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374303515781&
;ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395348027&bmUID=1099438696031&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444327
5942&assortment=primary


 Maybe the back is brown, but it seems to be silver; perhaps a cover-up? I have it installed in my rear window in my car now.


  If you hold it up to a bright light, it is reddish in apearance (the light that gets through).


  I dont see wires because as you can (hopefully) see, it has a plastic, sealed frame.


  Comments?

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 04:44:47 PM by juiced »

ghurd

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Re: Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2004, 05:40:01 PM »
The link didn't work. (Zip code, etc)


Sounds amorphous.


Have a look at iFreds recent posts. Those "flat wires" are hard to miss. Also, the empty space between his cells. From the front they are blue.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 05:40:01 PM by ghurd »
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juiced

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Re: Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2004, 06:01:29 PM »
http://www.icpsolar.com/specifications.php3?id_article=11#specifications


  Same panel, whatever they may claim.


 I will check out those posts right now.


   Im thinking @ 70$ CAN its not worth having if i can score them for 40$ US (shipping included or cheap?).


 I absolutly love the compressed air thing. Im sure you've heard of air-hogs? great little toys! :D


  So, math wise, is a large 700$ compressor tank worth getting? Will i have to replace the motor? Do air-tanks have a life span? :D


 (thanks for the hand-holding man... we all gotta start somewhere)


  At least with me, the info (once correct) will get passed on to many others.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 06:01:29 PM by juiced »

juiced

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2004, 06:14:13 PM »
O.k. I see the silver, flat 'wires' coming out of ifred's cells. I DO NOT see them on mine, but could they be at the ends, covered by the plastic? Or perhaps its the silver backing?


   It has the same kind of strips (cells) with paper-wide spaces between them.


  I can bring this panel back and get something else, but the next size up at crappy tire is 150$ for a 15w (TOOOO big for my liking, but i may have no choice for the shop).


  I cant wait for my own land to do what i will.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 06:14:13 PM by juiced »

ghurd

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Re: Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2004, 06:35:16 PM »
Probably the same. ICP does that. Or there manufacturers do.


I think the $40 HF panel is Al. framed. Don't remember really.  ICP isn't real bad, I just don't care for the technology at the retail price commanded.


I think $700, US or CD, is best spent on more PV or solar or something. Not sure what you mean... maybe Norm's alternative storage?  Still, $700 is a lot of something else.  How much wind or PV could be had for $700... a bunch.  A bunch better spent on something like PV or wind.


And thanks.  But I don't think I know more than you.  Mine is just a different field of expertise.  This whole wind thing is driving me nuts (College was a long time ago, and we did DOS back then).  It was P.W.  (Pre-Windows)

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 06:35:16 PM by ghurd »
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juiced

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Re: Whys it changing colors?!
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2004, 06:43:51 PM »
I had meant the 700$ for a shop-sized compresser and tank.


    I agree though, i would rather spend it on panels. I just dont have anywhere to put them... im totally urban right now.


  BTW, i ran a BBS in 91-4/5 called Death Ring BBS (for martial artists).


   I will actually be using old laptops running DOS and probably TP built controller programs.


 And personally, im quite sure everyone on this board knows more then me. I have a serious disadvantage... math. It could be all the accidents, or it could be the lack of interest when i younger.. but i just dont have ANY math skills. -zippity-do-da!-


    Pretty sad, and all this is creating a serious motivation for me. I just never really needed it before.


  Hey btw, you can contact me on my board if you'd like to have some real-time convos.


   I will probably copy/paste this thread as is covers alot of newbie questions...

« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 06:43:51 PM by juiced »

ghurd

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2004, 08:08:14 AM »
Harbor Freight.

3 of the ICP 15w panels, 2 CFL lights, a controller, and mounting hardware for US$200.  I think its probably Y2K stuff. Better hurry. They won't last long for that price.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90599


If it doesn't work, search their site for 'solar'.  They call it a 45w kit.


I don't care for them too much.  But it is a good deal.

I would change the controller to a Morningstar SG-4 as soon as I ordered it. The controller that comes with most of those kits isn't state of the art. An SG-4 would greatly improve the performance. (did it to several of these kits, all reported much better results)


G-

« Last Edit: November 03, 2004, 08:08:14 AM by ghurd »
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nothing to lose

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2004, 11:40:58 AM »
Ghurd,


Thanks for the link to the harbour frieght stuff, I may consider that myself in a few weeks.


In the mean time I am playing with a solar panel from a electric fence charger. You guys were an inspiration and all the reading on the solar stuff I rememberd years ago I had a 6V solar fence charger the battery was shot on but it worked for the solar, though I ended up using a grid powerd one.


Started a post on it a little while ago so I'll post about it there, but it is working some, just drug it out of the weeds and gave it a bath a few minutes ago, might be a way to get some cheap working ones.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2004, 11:40:58 AM by nothing to lose »

BT Humble

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2004, 03:57:59 PM »
Those panels look identical to the ones on my caravan.  I paid about AUD$155 each for them a year ago (~USD$115).  Solar panels are more expensive here.


They seem to be holding up OK.  I've been told that amorphous panels will start to show a noticable drop in current after 6 months or so, so I'll do a test in January and let you know.


BTH

« Last Edit: November 03, 2004, 03:57:59 PM by BT Humble »

ghurd

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2004, 10:35:33 AM »
Those panels usually go US$100-125 in the US.  I've seen them for sale for over US$200 each.

The 3 panel and 1 controller only kit is common for $300-350.


The drop off is more like 6 weeks.  Most companies rate them with 'after the drop off' numbers.  'New' does better than they claim on the box. I believe they have a slow and steady decline after that.


G-

« Last Edit: November 04, 2004, 10:35:33 AM by ghurd »
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BT Humble

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Re: Got my second solar panel today!
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2004, 02:25:38 PM »
Thanks, that's handy to know.


BTH

« Last Edit: November 09, 2004, 02:25:38 PM by BT Humble »