Tell me what to do for Temp Solar??

[Psycogeek]

To much to read, to much trouble :-)

i am making (have made) a solar pannel thing, using Loose cells.

i am like a bull in a china shop with them, makes me feel like a retard :-)

know any Lumberjacks that can assemble cells without BREAKING em?

the last one crumbled like a 500 piece puzzel.

i have a dog that is trying to HELP :-)

how the heck do i just get the pannel in a temp containment, to move it a few feet, be able to wire (rewire) it many different ways, meter it, test it, lean it, and easily dissasemble it?

i have a piece of acrylic, but it bows quite a bit, i have some rubber lifter things, that might form a sandwitch.

i got foam tape, and stuff like that, but this is just totally temporary, if i was going to buy a whole house of pannels i would buy them DONE, i just need to TEST.

i read one guy suspends his in just one place, just dangling there off the board?

i got some plywood, and pressboard, but i hate putting it on wood unless its painted, so it doesnt bow , warp, expand , even temporary i would have to spend days treating the wood first.

i hear your using GLASS, heck they ARE glass , am i supposed to create a china shop?

we got kids in the neighborhood, with Baseballs BB guns, and golf balls, where they get them i dont know.

i cant even keep from breaking the cells themselves, let alone adding in more fragility.

i got 2-4 lbs of cells at the most, am i supposed to put this onto 50 LBS to test em?  this is rediculous :-)

i cant stick them TO something, or stick stuff on top of them, because its just testing.

then i see the water problems , and the cell rotting, and hear about neeing to FIX them, on a sleers site, they were talking about dissasembling and repairing AUGGG,

and glass front breakage, if the front glass broke, i could see the cells behind it go by by really fast.

IS that WHY what we really end up doing is FINISHING a Pannel perfectally, and being done with it?

why didnt they MOUNT them on a hunk of aluminum? :-(

help me objuankanubi, whats an EASY simple way to test these in the open, and have them survive?

[Norm]

  This is just me others probably have answers

that are more welcome...this is what I'm doing

...now putting on 2 small wires so they make

contact with a printed circuit in a certain

location(making a counter from a calculator)

1st try ...sucess...2nd try...sucess, 3rd try..

almost ...except the display doesn't work, it cost a dollar! could save the little solar cell

...naw!...tossed it into the bin (for suitable

disposal)I've had 4 sucess and 2 failures not

counting this last one of trying to solder the

wires onto a printed circuit( a small pencil

type soldering gun...have come to the conclusion

that the soldering gun gets too hot...need one

with better control of the tempature...)so I'm

going back to just the bare wire touching the

bare printed circuit as it emerges from a tiny

hole that I drilled with a little mini-drill/grinder into the backside of the printed

circuit board, stuck the wire in and dabbed a

spot of glue from a mini-glue gun at the wire's

entrance into the hole which keeps it firmly fixed into position ...the rubber pad with the

buttons applies a constant pressure so it keeps

in contact as intended, after it is re-assembled.

   Stop thinking bull in a china shop...I'm all

thumbs also...yet I can get a tiny little screw

into those printed circuit boards.

  If you take a look at those solar lights,

you'll get a clue to how they done it.

  Mini-glue gun and tape can be quite useful.

  Hope this helps!

                 ( :>) Norm

 

[Psycogeek]

ahh the glue gun, i even have lotsa sticks for it.

i can get that back off with the heat gun too.

me thinks that is a good idea.

[iFred]

Glue gun is a bad bad idea! think about it, cells heat up!

anyway, see my page to give you an idea of what you can do.

click on solar...

http://www.internetfred.com

[Psycogeek]

your building permanent ones, with all real glass , i think your mineral oil idea is a good one, saw a guy fill a computer with mineral oil , they questiond its capacity to be a capicitor, but it worked great, he did not put the hard drive in of course.

what happens with your center suspention idea, if somebody (or say a klutz like me:-) dropped the finished pannel a few inches? or the wind shakes it, wouldnt the edges just go breaking off?

i was thinking that on permanent pannels, that a foam support behind them would have to be in strips supporting everywhere the leads aren't. but that would be a disaster for the heat issues.

surely the manufactured pannels can be droped once, sprayed with water, handle all enviromental conditions (warped boards ect).  how do they do it?

How much loss did you get with auto glass? the windshield type has a hunk of plastic in its center, and tempered is much stronger, but isnt the crystal structure different from the cooling compression process?

and tempered is very heavy, how much does your pannel weigh in at?

so many questions, so little time :-)

 

[picmacmillan]

you are giving me a flashback from when i first started my panels...i was frustrated and for a time was advising others not to take up this project..in the end of it all i got 7 nice panels from 5lbs of cells...they kick out 68 watts or so per panel..i am very happy with them....my point is, we learn a little bit each day on here reading different posts, but it's these things that frustrate us to the limits that in the end give us a huge amount of knowledge and satisfaction in a short period of time.....you will come out of this and you will be proud of the panels you create...do like fred says and look at his site,...do as you are doing and ask questions....if you don't get the answer, say so and ask again....now get your soldering gun out and get back to work soldier! (just kidding) pickster

[pyrocasto]

The problem with mineral oil I think would be break down. Does it happen in heat.

With the cells supported in the center, you would probably have a better chance of breaking due to shock, but then you wont have as many problems with expansion from covering more of the cell. The wind shouldnt break them, but I imagine a drop would.(though if you drop it from any distance your whole panel is gone O_O).

Speaking of the foam support idea, that's what I did for my panel. I used 3 strips of double sided tape for each cell. Seems to work pretty good. I just hope they stay on there with time, which they should, since they are sealed away from the elements. They strips are soft so I imagine when they get pretty hot they will flex with the cell, instead of breaking it.

Some, I believe, are filled with an epoxy type liquid to help with that. I'm not sure how expansion doesnt get them though, since I've never messed with it.

The panels will usually weigh a bit. Mine since it's so big and made of wood, and I used 1/4(I'll have to check for sure) glass, it weighs a crap load. Not something one person could put up, but it's also holding 90 cells.

Here's the finished product. You can look through my files for more pictures.

[Psycogeek]

doubble sided foam tape was my thought too. the 3M stuff gets crusty with age 15+ years, but it is still holding the stuff i made with it.

some glues get old and just loosen, some will freeze up and become like elmers, and that is what the 3M foam tape does with age. the foam is still flexable.

duct tape and foam tape :-) the duct tape even the primadonna stuff, never held past the 3rd year, it gets crusty, and falls loose. the only thing duct tape is useless for is DUCTS :-)

But what can i hold this stuff on with temporary, mabey i might make a pannel like some of the mondo ones here (right after heck freezes over:-) but i would like to save these cells for reconfiguration, or proper placement in a good design.

right now i just want to test, reconfigure, clip leads and all.

[Psycogeek]

your website link goes to e-mail link instead.

(just thought i would tell you)

i realize now i can see the peoples projects (uploaded pics) with the info button,that should be helpfull.

and your right, i should get back to plopping this all on something.

i have them all soldered, and testing is looking really good, assuming i have a few pannels when i get done moving these things around :-)

[picmacmillan]

i am a little wary of the mineral oil idea...i feel that heat is our enemy as it will steal valuable power from our panels...i feel when the oil is heated from the sun, this will reduce our output for longer as the oil retains its heat(just my view)..below is couple pictures...one is of how i hung the cells til i was ready to make a panel, and the other is to show the foam tabs i used in between the glass...i also used some small wooden squares to keep the panels supported on the inside...pickster

[Psycogeek]

i have a whole bunch of little rubberlike things kinda like your foam thing, , i think that might just work, to temporarly keep the cells from sliding around and causing me problems.

i left just enough space between the cells, because i saw peoples pics with them putting things inbetween the cells themselves like that.

so you have something UNDER the cells too? where is the wood?

the black rounds are your top bottom seperators right? so the cells dont get crushed by the top plate.

what will you use to keep the solar cells stuck to anything?

the mineral oil should not incurr more heat into the pannel, because it cant much stop the heat in the pannel, it cannot collect heat, because the heat problem is just the CELL (which seems to get very hot). the mineral oil should cool the cell, and distribute the heat to both top and bottom covers (he uses glass) so logically it should cause more transfer of the hotest part to the cooler parts for removal.

like the guys processor in the mineral oil computer, it transfered the heat of the processor, to the whole computer block, instead of the one location. he didnt have a fan on the cpu (in the oil).

[Psycogeek]

oops, let me say that better, the oil will not make its own heat, because it is mostly transparent. it will collect heat, but off of where you want it removed. it will HOLD heat also, but not any more than would be in the sealed system.

i really think that if there is open chimney air convection of the air, it would cool much better, but i see much dust collecting in that scenario, road film , etc.

[pyrocasto]

Also condensation causing corrotion.

Oil will only hold heat on the cells when they are not normally hot, when it's dark. When it's dark I dont care much about losses. Unless the efficiency goes up so I can get power from the moon.

[picmacmillan]

the heat i am thinking of is the heat the sun produces and releases into the oil, thus making the oil warm...the volume of oil would take longer too dissipate the heat from the sun as it is trapped between 2 panes of glass which also will heat up due to the suns rays..i don't have a picture of the little square wooden spacers i used, but they were just little 1/4" cutouts of panelling and i used them all over the inside of the glass, just to help save the cells from being cruchsed by the glass or any exterior force....i also used a dab of silicon on the back of each cell and gently pushed the cells into place on the glass...you can see the wooden pieces in the photo below....i don't knowthat i would use this type of wood if i was using mineral oit as it may swell over time....pickster

[pyrocasto]

The oil would actually pull away the heat and disipate it faster from the cells. As you said, the oil would hold onto the heat longer as well. But, when arent the cells hot anyway? When it's cloudy or dark, so I really dont mind having warm cells during the night time anyway. Air is a poor conductor of heat compared to oil, so it would keep your cells at a much cooler level I believe.

[Psycogeek]

on the oil

when the sun heats up a lake, does it do so via the air heating the water, or the sun beating through the water?

does very Clear water have the same issue?

so if you put a glass jar of mineral oil in the direct sun, would the oil get hotter than the air?

[Psycogeek]

Do the solar cells put out MORE heat than a black (dark blue) hunk of glass in the same position?

meaning does the electrical energy stuff itself heat up like a silicoln component?

it is outputting power, how much of that power BECOMES waste heat?

in other words, would a set of solar cells increase the heat , that then could be used as another source of usable energy?

it seemed to me that it was putting out more heat than the sun heat it was collecting, but then again, how often do i hold a hunk of black in my hand and purposfully collect sun with it :-)

[Psycogeek]

I finnaly decided on a back plate, it was a tough decision :-)

I ask sombody to go get me a sheet of aluminum, and some aluminum channel to reinforce the back.

he came back with a 50$ sheet of aluminum (EEEEKK)

oops, that would have increased the cost significantally :-( not to meantion having to insulate the conductivity of the thing.

the Aluminum channel was still a good idea for engioneered stability, so i found a nice piece of 2'x4' 1/4" birtch plywood, that looked VERY dry, and aged, and clean, and cheap.  

then some enamel white paint to paint it.

i will form joists with the aluminum channel to keep it straight, and depend on the side aluminum channels to finish that task

i couldnt glue to the board, because in 100 years or so the laminate might seperate, and all glues age, i have terrible luck with glue over time, even epoxies, so i am going to have to screw the aluminum joists on, and put the screw heads in the gaps between the cells or somethin.

Yaaaaawwwwn, its still drying.

[ghurd]

The first solar electric panel was purple glass, with many holes drilled to insert pairs of different conductors, in series... in like 1800?  1700? But a long time ago... (the first Peltier junction?)

It did work.

Trivial.

G-

[Psycogeek]

well i am Slowly getting it together YAAAWWWWN

i think i am going to dubb it ACE , cause there is enough hardware in it to open a store.

i wanted to make sure i could completly dismantle it, alter it, change it, take the cells out, and now its all screwed up :-)

well i coulda used rivets , but this way i can alter any aspect of it.

i still have one BIG problem, and that is how to put the cells themselves in it, so they are SHOCK mounted, but still removable.

or

if i permanent it, i was thinking of putting 5 LINES of silicoln , so convection airflow (within the pannel) can flow up the backside of them.  that would mount them at more places, but still alow the whole thing to expand contract.

I thought about a silicoln Grid, but it would stop air flow in both directions

or

the other person here suggests more of a DOT pattern, one in the center, 4 on the corners.  i think that would be more removable than the lines, but i dont think this is adequite shock mounting.

especially seeings these are reject cells, and are ven more prone to becomming 1/2 cells :-)