Author Topic: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electronics  (Read 4118 times)

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Derek

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Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electronics
« on: November 16, 2005, 05:46:33 PM »
Hi everyone, this is my first time here, of probably many visits to come.  I've been working on creating a passive solar heater, with a 12v DC fan to circulate more air through it.  


Basically, I bought this fan, which is supposed to put out 79 cubic feet per minute, and is perfect if running at full capacity.  Now what I would like to do is hook this fan directly to a solar panel, this would avoid having to use any other switches, batteries and such.  Basically, when its sunny out, the box heats up, and the fan would kick on.


The fan is rated at .34 amps, (4.08 watts).  The problem I have is that the solar panel only puts out 300mah, which I guess is WAY too low to even get this fan to kick on.  It will run if I push start it with my finger, but thats all.  The solar panel is rated at 15.4 volts though they said.  Now I've tried using a few capacitors, but that hasnt seemed to do anything.  From what I understand, using a diode would make sure the current flows only one direction, which I'd probably need.


But I guess what I really need to do is somehow increase the amps between the solar panel and the fan itself.  So how can I do that?  I'm at a complete loss of ideas here, since I'm pretty new to electronics for the most part.  Any and all help is appreciated, thanks!  


-Derek

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 05:46:33 PM by (unknown) »

techwolf

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2005, 10:58:57 AM »
Get a second solar panel, a smaller fan or use some sort of reflector to put more sunlight on the panel you got.

just make sure the panel does'nt get too hot

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 10:58:57 AM by techwolf »

ghurd

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Re:
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2005, 11:00:39 AM »
Hi Derek,

A diode will make things worse.

A cheap fix with the same panel,

try a 300ma 9V fan, or maybe a 250ma 12V fan.

G-
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 11:00:39 AM by ghurd »
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TomW

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2005, 11:21:06 AM »
Derek;


Probably a minor point but a passive solar heater is not supposed to need any fans.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 11:21:06 AM by TomW »

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2005, 11:36:35 AM »
Derek;


Sorry forgot to address the question itself.


As others suggested a lower power requirement fan or reflecting more light onto the panel or another panel . Other options include using a solid state relay driven from the panel to switch on an exterior power source like a wall wart or something but then its not totally solar. I have other ideas but are probably beyond someone with no electrical knowledge and will require either more gear or external power sources.


Fact is if it tends to thermosiphon well as is you probably could use a  computer cooling fan or 2 or 3 to add some boost.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 11:36:35 AM by TomW »

MountainMan

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Re: Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2005, 01:40:57 PM »
Derek,

The other posters got it right, but didn't really tell you anything that would help you learn about the electronics you got yourself into.  So I'll try to fill in that part.


Electronic circuits can do tricks playing up current with lower voltage or higher voltage with lower current, but your solar panel just isn't putting out quite enough power to run the fan.  Power equals volts times current, but not the volts and current that are on the package the solar cell came in.  No circuit can increase the power, just change the proportions of the volts and the amps.


The 15.4 volts you quoted is the "open circuit" voltage.  The highest voltage it can put out.  As soon as  you hook a load to it (like your fan), the voltage goes down some.  So that 15.4 Volts number is for marketing purposes only.  In the same way, the .34 amps is the max current with some (very bright) amount of light hitting it with the best possible load attached (most likely, a short circuit).  You won't likely ever see that in real life unless you live in the high desert, and you look at the current going through a dead short.


So, if you want to learn a bit about this, you could buy or borrow a digital meter, and do some measuring of the voltage and current with your solar cell hooked up to your fan.  You will probably find that with the fan's load on the solar cell it is only putting out 9 or 10 volts, and that is just  not quite enough to kick it over.


BTW, your idea about the diode.  A solar cell (unlike a wind generator), puts out a nice flat DC voltage.  No alternating current to worry about.  The diode would only be relevant for some other source that puts out AC waveforms.  The diode added to a DC circuit makes things just a hair worse, because a diode "uses up" about 6 tenths of a volt when current is running through it.  That's called its "forward voltage".  So putting that in the circuit just made it about .6 volts worse.


best,

jp

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 01:40:57 PM by MountainMan »

wpowokal

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Re: Passive Solar Heating -
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2005, 03:17:07 PM »
Derek what is used in sola water pumping istallations for the very reason you mention is a maxium power point tracker (MPPT). Having said that it would make your project expensive.


You can read about them here.http://www.affordable-solar.com/tear1.html


or search for a circuit to build here..http://www.discovercircuits.com/list.htm


allan down under

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 03:17:07 PM by wpowokal »
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Clifford

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2005, 05:58:12 PM »
Derek,


If your fan is rated at .34 amps, and your solar panel is rated at 300 mah (.3 amps),


Well, I thought you were a long ways off, but it sounds like you are quite close, especially since the fan does actually run if started by hand.


I would recommend testing everything rather than taking the manufacturer's word.


Put the fan on a 12V battery (either car battery or 2 x lantern batteries).  Check the power consumption (amps) with your digital ammeter/multimeter.


Also, test your solar panel when connected to a not quite fully charged battery, or when connected to your motor.


What you will probably notice when testing the fan is that it's power consumption will spike early, then level off as it comes up to speed.


There may be a way to design a circuit that would use a capacitor to create an initial boost...  then turn it off.  Unfortunately, I can only visualize half the circuit.


You might consider:

Battery Backup (which should provide the starting power needed).

Turn on and off the fan with either a separate photo sensor/detector, or a mercury thermostat.  


I'd have to review thermostat design, but a mercury thermostat is dependable, and uses ZERO POWER, but only works at a static temperature setting.


I wonder if there is a way to set 2 thermostats, one in the house, and one in the solar panel to only activate your fan when it is warmer inside the panel than inside the house, hopefully not tripping the fan on and off all the time, and actually being able to shut the fan off at night rather than continuing to blow warm air through, heating your thermostat.


Maybe an answer would be the battery and solar cell, a mercury thermostat set at 65 or 70 degrees, and a photo detector.


Ummm...  it is sounding too complicated....


____________________________


What about a circuit like this:


Solar Array (no battery)



  • - ------------------------------------------------>   - Motor
  • + ---------------------------------------------->  |- + Motor
  • + --> Capacitor --> Mercury Thermostat -->  | + Motor


There might be advantages of using a two pole mercury switch so that power isn't sent to the motor until the temp rises and throws the capacitor circuit.  But, the problem might be an instability with starting and stopping such a circuit too frequently (although, the mercury thermostat would naturally have a few degree range on/off cycle and you certainly don't want to cool your house on a cloudy day).


In your case, you could test the circuit with:



  • - --------------------------------------->   - Motor
  • + ------------------Two Pole Switch -->  |- + Motor
  • + --> Capacitor --> Two Pole Switch -->  |_ + Motor


I don't know the rating of the capacitor, but I am sure there is someone here with better electronics skills that would have a suggestion.


____________________________


When I looked up capacitor start AC motors, they discussed having a starter winding (often with a centrifugal shut-off switch).


You might be able to do something similar with a super small motor attached to the larger motor.

____________________________

As far as diodes, all of my solar panels (Siemens) have low loss diodes built in.  Presumably they are symmetrical in their power generation and could send the power either direction if the diodes were removed.  In fact, they seemed to have a slight tendency to send power backwards when I bypassed the diodes.  I am not sure why they had two diodes (+ and - poles) rather than a single one.  Maybe I should go around and scavenge the redundant diodes.


---- Clifford -----

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 05:58:12 PM by Clifford »

ghurd

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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2005, 06:45:05 PM »
I want to revise the 250ma 12V fan to 200ma.

Thats muffin fans.


Not sure if this will work, but it's interesting.


An 'NMB SmartFan'.

At 72'F, 12V 160ma, 50CFM.

Then at 95F it kicks up the speed to 118CFM.

It may get around the needing to finger start.

And when the box isn't so hot, it gives a little more time to warm up?

And when the sun is making the box hot, the panel should be making more power?


Maybe there are fancy electronics that won't like working with solar,

but I figure it's just a snap disk.

The fan...

http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=076710648148148265252310&prodid=FAN1082&page=3&c
ri=FAN&stype=2


My experience with muffin fans says they will start at 2/3 the rated V and amps.

I would have thought the 12V 340ma fan would start reliable with 9V and 225ma.

And 12V muffin fans run OK, but slower and use less amps, down to 5V.


G-

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 06:45:05 PM by ghurd »
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nothing to lose

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2005, 07:31:24 PM »
Hi Derek


Your pannel does not have the power to start the fan like others said. I have played wth fans also, they do need more power to start than run. Like a cheap 12V car fan from the discount store will not start running till it gets about 2V or 2.5V but it will continue turning (very slowly) all the way down to around 1.2V. One of those 6" cigarette lighter fans for cars.

 I used such a 12V fan next to my wood burner last year with a poor little wind gennie I built and installed in a poor location. When it got good winds I got up into 14-18V and the fan ran really fast, poor winds and I would get 1.5V the fan would not start, but at around 2V it would start and run slow all the way back down to about 1.2V maybe even less. I had a digital meter wired in reading the line when I wanted to play with it. That little fan of yours should need far less amps, but probably close to the same for volts. I played with a few of those and a larger solar pannel from an old 6V fence charger. I have tons of computer fans :)


My suggestion is get a digital meter (about $3 for a cheap one) then check the output of your pannel for the Volts and the amps. Connect your fan to it and see how many amps the fan draws when running, you may have to bump it to get it started.

 Since you probably don't have anyway to tell exactly how many ma  it takes to get it started, I would geuss 2X as much as when running.


Now my geuss is you will have sun for the pannel to make some power in the mornings for a short time before you have heat built up you'll want the fan moving around. I would use this time to charge something, a capacitor or a tiny button cell battery perhaps. Wire the pannel to charge it, a photo censor to turn the fan on/off, and a gate or such also.

Put the photo sensor so that it needs stonger sun to turn on the fan. Either mounted so the first few minutes of sun it's in the shade or perhaps cover it with a thin tinted film to block a small amount of light. This way the heater starts heating when the sun comes up, the solar pannel starts charging the cap or battery, maybe 15-20 minutes latter the fan turns on when the sun is stronger or moves and the sensor gets more sun to it.


Ghurd might be able to help with the sensor setup? He made me a neat little photo sensor gate LED setup for 12V to turn leds on at night and off durring the day. My project was to charge batteries 24/7 as the wind blows with a little windmill and LEDS for yard lights at night. Kinda a working yard ornament with purpose.

Anyway mine was oposite, off durring day and on at night.


I think that should work, you only need to bump up the power a tiny bit to start the fan and using the first few minutes of sun to charge something to give you that bump should work. And using a small cap or cell battery should not cause any problems where the fan would run after the sun goes down. Also if you used a large battery the fan would run full speed and use far more power than your pannel can make, that would not be good either. With a cell battery it would go dead right away, or never be charged anyway, but the capacity is small enough it should charge enough in the morning to bump start your fan then be dead enough so that your running off the pannel.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 07:31:24 PM by nothing to lose »

ghurd

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2005, 08:27:27 PM »
The sensor would 'probably' work, but add a little complexity, and a little losses.

But the panel could charge a cap, then when the light was bright enough for the circuit to start, the panel and cap would give it some extra amps at a higher voltage.

G-
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 08:27:27 PM by ghurd »
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Derek

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2005, 07:42:47 AM »
Hello again, thanks guys for your input, its greatly appreciated!  I suppose its not technically passive heating if I have electronics on it, but its not charging anything for use later.  I want the solar panel to only turn on the fan automatically when its sunny (which also means the thing has heated up too).  So it would be a stand alone unit, requiring no maintanence or flipping any switches at all.  


The fan you gave me the link to is excellent though!  That may be perfect, never seen that one before.  The variable speed would be great too, allowing for it to heat up better, yes.  Right now, the heaters output is about 130 degrees, and goes to about 90-100 when I turn on the 80 cubic feet per minute fan.  Which is still good!  Just about like your heating vents in your house.


The photo sensor is probably out though.  I'm trying to keep the costs extremely low on this.  And a 12v battery wouldnt work, because then I'd have that cost, plus an on/off switch for it, or photo sensor.  But then like somebody said, it would use more power than the solar panel provided to the battery.  The small button battery would be just about like the capacitor I would imagine though.


Now on the diode's, I'm under the impression that they keep the current from flowing backwards or something.  I have just a normal panel, no wires on it, so no positive or negative, so I'd think I'd need one of those right?


Also, if anyone has any other ideas on a better panel to use for around $25 or so, please let me know.  But I assume there is no real way to boost amps then from the solar panel?


But basically, the heater works well with thermosiphoning, but I want to blow that air out into the room for it to work a little better.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 07:42:47 AM by Derek »

ghurd

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2005, 08:11:34 AM »
""Now on the diode's, I'm under the impression that they keep the current from flowing backwards or something.""


Just a panel, no battery. The panel only makes amps one way. When the sun goes down, no amps. There is no battery, so there is no where for the amps to come from, to go backwards. A diode is just going to use up power that the fan really needs.


""I have just a normal panel, no wires on it, so no positive or negative, so I'd think I'd need one of those right?""


I might see part of the problem. How are the wires connected to the panel? Small cheap test leads have tiny wires and a small area of connection at the clips. Some have very poor connections between the wire and clips. That can mean the power is having a hard time getting from the panel to the fan. Make some good connections and it may work a lot better.


""better panel to use for around $25""

Wow. 5w for $25? Not very likely!

I might have another idea if you tell me what panel you have and where it came from.


That place with the 2 speed muffin has (had?) some other muffins for 99 cents too. Might be worth it to order $10 in fans, then try them to see what works.

G-

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 08:11:34 AM by ghurd »
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Derek

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2005, 10:20:21 AM »
Here is the type I have, the 15.4v, it says 50ma actually.  But he said 300ma in an email to me, so I'm not sure what to believe...  Here is the link:


http://www.siliconsolar.com/flexible_solar_cells.htm


The thing doesnt have any positive or negative signs on it, but they only work in one direction huh?  Didnt know that, new to me, haha.  I would have hoped it already come with wires on it.... but it didnt.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 10:20:21 AM by Derek »

ghurd

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2005, 11:36:13 AM »
Sorry. Its 50ma. There is no hope for that one. Very suprised the fan worked at all.


Maybe try ebay for a VW Solar panel. Mine put out a little over 225ma easy enough, but they are rated at 175ma.

G-

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 11:36:13 AM by ghurd »
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pyrocasto

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Re: Passive Solar Heating -
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2005, 12:07:36 PM »
But that would also be pointless in such a small power application. Another panel would probably be cheaper in this situation.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 12:07:36 PM by pyrocasto »

pyrocasto

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2005, 12:11:39 PM »
Unfortunantly I've heard many bad things of siliconsolar over the years, and I'll leave it at that.


Your panel is 50ma and finding a fan that low would not be easy or useful. You're going to have to get a bigger panel and as mentioned, the VW panels on ebay work quite nicely. ;)

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 12:11:39 PM by pyrocasto »

ghurd

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2005, 03:28:19 PM »
If you go with a VW panel (might get one cheap at a dealership), most newer ones have a built in regulater in the plug part. Remove it.

Older ones seem to have just a diode. Remove it.

Wire the fan directly to the output wires.


Looks like this inside...




G-

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 03:28:19 PM by ghurd »
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maker of toys

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Re: Passive Solar Heating - Need Help w/ electroni
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2005, 06:01:05 PM »
generally speaking, a commutated motor (esp a high-speed one) will take much more current to start than it does to run-  at stall it's pretty much a dead short, and you've got to get enough current to overcome the brush drag before the thing will start. If you're limited to 1/6 the motor's rated run current for your starting current, you're going to be severely torque challenged in the best of cases. add to that the drag of teh brushes on teh comm, and you're stuck. (pardon the pun)


So you might have a look and see if maybe you can lighten the brush springs a bit; that should help your starting problem. it's a balancing act, though; lighter brush contact means more sparking, leading to more brush and comm. wear.


Too, make sure you have JUST ENOUGH lube in the motor bearings; too much, too heavy, or too little, and your starting torque goes up.  I like "Tri-Flo" (most hardware stores)  for this sort of application. Stay AWAY from WD-40. (too much wax)


or, like the man says, go in for a cheap brushless unit . . .  Much lower break-away torque on start.


another possibility is to get a reverse Peltier powered fan (sold in some wood-stove shops) and modify that to do the same job, using the heat of the thermosyphon itself?  probably too spendy, though.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 06:01:05 PM by maker of toys »

Clifford

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2005, 06:13:23 PM »
I still think the mercury thermostat attached to a battery / capacitor is the way to go to start the fan.


That would allow your system to build up some juice (hopefully), then trip when the sun has been out long enough to heat up the panel and you were ready to start blowing the warm air into the house.


The thermostats are extraordinarily simple (other than being considered a hazardous waste).


They have a spiral of laminated metal that expands differently on the two sides when heated.  This causes a tiny sealed vial of Mercury to tilt and a drop of mercury to roll down and close the contacts on the other end of the vial.


The weight of the mercury keeps the contacts from immediately reopening as the temperature changes.


If the switches are only single pole, one might be able to make a 2-pole switch by super glueing two vials together (hopefully solid enough that they don't separate, drop, and leak).

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 06:13:23 PM by Clifford »

maker of toys

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2005, 06:40:46 PM »
that would certainly work;  


go for the capacitor.  the battery would have a short, eventfull life, what with being pulled to 0%SoC each night.


the capactor would probably be cheaper in any case; a bunch of old induction motor caps from the junkyard could be paralleled for the cost of the gas to go get them and the wire and solder to connect them.


or an electronics surplus house could be the source for a 25V 10,000 uF (or bigger) capacitor for not much money.  (a brand new 12,000uF, 63V cap can be had for ca. $10; or a 25V, 50,000uF for ca. $14 at one national mail-order house.


-Dan

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 06:40:46 PM by maker of toys »

Derek

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2005, 06:47:28 PM »
All of the fans I've worked with are brushless.  Sorry, should have mentioned that.  Yeah, definitely trying to stay away from the battery thing though.  


Anybody know where to buy the VW solar panels online other than ebay?  I'd rather do that if possible actually, if not much more expensive.  But if those are putting out 170ma, and then that fan you showed me is 160ma.  If I get a capacitor with that, should start up no problem right?  Whats the 'ma' rating after the fan kicks into high gear though?  I'd assume it wouldn't be too hard for it to do that, since its already spinning, which is the hardest part to initiate.


Now, for a 12v solar panel from VW, exactly which type of capacitor would be the absolute best that I'd be able to pick up from radio shack or something?


Thanks again for your help!!!

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 06:47:28 PM by Derek »

nothing to lose

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2005, 07:50:22 PM »
If your going to go for a muffin or computer type fan look at the fans at Bestbyte.net for detailed info.


Something like this maybe for $6 and shipping?


http://www.bestbyteinc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FAN-TMO-8BB1


 Top Motor 80mm x 25mm Double Ball Bearing Variable RPM 3 pin

MFN: DF128025BB-1 24~43 CFM, 21~37 dBA, double ball bearing 50K hour MTBF@25°C, 18 inch power leads, RPM sensor tachometer output, includes mounting screws, onboard temperature sensor seven speed auto adjust


I like and use alot of Top Motor fans for computers and odd projects too.

The above fan automatically adjusts speed for the temp of the air being moved. You would want it sucking hot air out of the heater, or installed inside the heater, not blowing room air into it. As the air moving through the fan gets hotter the faster the fan runs. I use mostly 80mm for everything myself, all kinds of fans and various sizes available, you just have to decide whats best for you. A smaller fan would posibly use less power and be easier to start up, but then again move less air also.


 I have used a similar fans with temperature sensor, not sure if the same one or not, and I liked them and they worked well.


Bestbyte has alot of info for most the fans they sell, may help you decide which ones fit your needs. I have bought alot of stuff there myself and been happy with it.

They do have $1 fans too.


Your question about the other fan that was mentioned earlier.


"Whats the 'ma' rating after the fan kicks into high gear though?  I'd assume it wouldn't be too hard for it to do that, since its already spinning, which is the hardest part to initiate."


 If the fan is running already and does not have enough power for full speed, it should just run slower but still run. It's the startup that takes the most power, once you get it started it should continue to run, even if not full speed. The fan I posted the link for has a chart/graph that shows the temps/speeds/power for the temp sensing fan.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2005, 07:50:22 PM by nothing to lose »

ghurd

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2005, 07:06:46 AM »
All the VW panels are technically stolen. They come with all (?) VWs and are supposed to be given to the buyer of the car, but I never met anyone who got a panel with their car. And I read they can't be bought or ordered from the dealership.  So maybe go down to the VW dealers, ask nice, and they may just give you one or sell one cheap.


The capacitor is probably out unless you want to go with control circuits.

Even with a control circuit, it would take every cap at your RadioShack, and a few more! Probably taking a soup can sized cap.

As the sun hits the panel, current flows through the motor. The cap will never get higher V than the motor is all ready seeing. All this happens slowly, so the slow charge and discharge of the cap isn't going to make any difference as far as the motor is concerned.  A cap may even make it worse because it will soak up any spikes that could have kicked the motor into rotating.


The fan you have runs at least some on 60ma at 4V (best guess).  I would suggest getting a VW size panel and connect it direct. There shouldn't be any problems.

G-

« Last Edit: November 18, 2005, 07:06:46 AM by ghurd »
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Derek

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2005, 06:47:01 AM »
See I've got a store that I currently sell all sorts of odd things in, and I wanted to get these heaters going to sell locally now too.  So I sort of need a reliable source to get the panels from.  So where can I get a very inexpensive 12v 3-4 watt panel?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 06:47:01 AM by Derek »

ghurd

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2005, 08:00:55 PM »
""where can I get a very inexpensive 12v 3-4 watt panel?""

You can't have a decent PV cheap. More so in the small range, like under 40W.

I do solar retail and wholesale.

The nicest 3-4W PV I ever saw was a 2.5W from China. Wholesale BEFORE the recent, long, and continuing price increases was US$40.  About that time nice 40W PVs were $140, but those days are long gone.

If you just want 'cheap', the US-5 may still be available somewhere NOS, but it's out of production for a while now.

The VW PVs are very nice but they were not intended for long term or outdoor use by the looks of them.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 08:00:55 PM by ghurd »
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elvin1949

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2005, 06:56:46 PM »
12v-5watt $39.99 at harbor freight

lot no.41144

later

elvin
« Last Edit: November 20, 2005, 06:56:46 PM by elvin1949 »

Aelric

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Re: Passive Solar Heating-Need Help w/ electronics
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2005, 08:32:57 PM »
Just my 2 bits.  Since you are after Passive Solar heating, with no active elements there are some options that require no fan.  There is one in the current issue of Home Power (this month) that a man built for his workshop.  Looks very nice actually.  He built it out of some Corrigated clear plastic, a dark window screen, and 2 holes in his wall.  A lower vent allows air in, it is heated and because hot air rises it continues upward to the top vent where it is forced inside the building, this causes convection to occur, sucking in air on the bottom vent and warming it and releasing it out the top one.  To regulate it he used some plastic flaps.  


Here's a link to the article I mentioned:


http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm

« Last Edit: November 20, 2005, 08:32:57 PM by Aelric »