Appliances on Solar

[Jedon]

I'm getting ready to pick my appliances for my off grid house and want to make informed decisions on what to look for. I will of course try and have all things that can be run off gas do so, except for the fridge, just normal things like the stove and oven and water heater.

Are there any solar conscious dish washers? I know I can open the door to let the dishes dry instead of having a dry cycle, but are there any that run off propane?

Are ice makers in refrigerators bad power wise?

Any other appliance advice? Brands? Models? I downloaded the EPA Energy ratings for some things like dishwashers but I'm not convinced that tells the whole story.

Thanks!

-Jedon

[wdyasq]

I have an "Equator EZ3710CEE" clothes processor. It is said to use minimal electricity and does well for a person or couple who would not be doing a lot of laundry. It is not a machine that puts up with overloading.

There are some fairly efficient dishwashers. Many have names like "Spot" or "Rover". And - there are some that don't require having the door opened for them either.

Ice requires a certain amount of energy to be removed from the water for it to become solid. All ice-makers will require a similar amount of energy removal to achieve this. Refrigerators vary greatly in their consumption but some are less than 1kWh/day. Check out the chest freezer to refrigerator at http://mtbest.net/ for a real energy saving refrigerator.

Solar water heating is the best return of investment I know in RE. If one cares to build their own 'batch style' heater the return is even greater.

Conservation is cheaper than production.

Ron

[Gary D]

 I read a while back that a solar house owner bought a newer model stove/oven. The appliance had a glow plug that continuously had a draw of 400 watts while the oven was on, and a sparker setup(for safety) that wouldn't allow the burners to light without a 110 plug. Might want to check this out if shopping. It was replaced, with an older model, I think(saved lots of solar watts). Just a thought from the cheap seats...

[kurt]

yes 99% of the electric ignition ranges made today use a glowbar ignition system in the oven that will draw about 400w anytime the burner is on for off grid living you need to get a range with pilots or spend the money on a range with spark ignition in the oven. you can find them online by searching for off grid gas range. be warned though that i know a couple that bought one of those spark ignition ranges and they said the fit and finish on the range was kinda rough. made it look cheep.

[PaulJ]

   Connecting a dishwasher to the hot water supply instead of the cold (assuming a propane or solar hot water system) should substantially reduce its electricity consumption.

   Paul.

[scottsAI]

Hi Jedon,

Refrigerator:

Take a look at it how it works, I found mine discharged the heat out the back.

I put my hand on top of the freezer and it was hot (OK warm, was expecting it to be cool). At first I thought it was in defrost cycle, but every time... was hotter than the room temp. So measured the temp, 80'F in a 72'F room. I made a chimney in the wall behind the fridge, cooled it down to 68'F.

The chest freezer to refrigerator effect can be achieved by adding foam insulation to the outside of the fridge, one inch on 34'F part and two inches on the freezer. Make sure your not covering anything best left uncovered. Most new fridges have all the coils in the bottom, not along the back as years past.

With a little effort the foam can be covered to look nice. Each doubling of the insulation will reduce the heat loss thus the energy needed to run in half. The sunfrost has several inches of foam.

This of course will make the fridge bigger, so leave enough room in the kitchen design for it.

Ice-makers

If you want cold drinks, then you need an ice maker.

If drink is placed in fridge and cooled or cooled with ice will require the same energy.

Ice just can do it much faster!

Lighting:

Search on "daylighting".

I can make suggestions or answer questions. Spent time studying.

Heating

Solar heating many good examples out there.

Oven:

I do not like gas ovens, consider the time it's used, may not be worth the extra cost to go gas here.

I use gas stove top and electric wall oven. With grid tie:-)

Solar:

Didn't notice tracking in your solar list:

http://www.solar-trackers.com/concentrator2.htm

DIY can be very cost effective. Power boost 30+%. Bigger than with MPPT.

Have you already built the off grid home?

I could make other suggestions, but will see before I spend the time!

Have fun,

Scott.

[Volvo farmer]

Here's what the appliance repairman put in his off-grid house about a year ago.

Kitchen,

Range: 1948 Okeefe and Merritt, 40" wide, top re-chromed, converted to LP, pilot lights, old school.

Fridge: 1952(?) Servel  (Thanks Dan!)

Dishwasher: The wife and I, she washes, I rinse, we talk and look out the kitchen window.  Maybe 15 minutes total time invested in the evening. My wife washes dishes like a banshee but we used to have an automatic dishwasher when we lived on grid and I truly do not see a great deal of time saved between loading/unloading the thing and washing by hand. We also have 24" of extra cabinet space in the kitchen. I would never go back, even if I had to wash and rinse and put-away by myself.

Laundry,

Washer: had an older Kenmore front loader, now got a HE3. Bigger but has a few phantom watts so got to shut it down on a power strip

Dryer: Eeeh whatever LP unit I have laying around. Current one is a Whirlpool, efficiency between brands is negligibile IMO.

You didn't mention how you were planning on producing your electricity, but if a significant amount is from solar, I will tell you that we seem to have more electricity than we know what to do with in the summer months, and I'm all solar at the moment. An in-the-refrigerator icemaker can be shut off at any time by lifting up the lever. I tend to use way more ice in the summer than in the winter (due to the nature of distilled spirits) so if you truly have enough electricity for an electric fridge, I'd think an icemaker would just be a bonus as you can shut it off with discretion.

We're actually planning to go to an electric fridge soon but need to increase our power supply first. Personally, I wouldn't buy one without an icemaker, because of my friend Jameson.

Like others said, watch out for glow bar ignition on the range. Either confirm it has spark ignition (and usually eat the phantom watts for the electronic control) or just get pilot lights all around.

[hvirtane]

Hi,

I don't think it is a good idea to use electricity to heat water or to make ice.

A big effort was there to convert solar energy very inefficiently into electric energy... It is better to use solar heat directly to heat water and some reflectors to make ice...

- Hannu

[Gordy]

Hannu,

Could you elaberate or provide a link on the use of reflectors to make ice from solar heat?

I tried your link http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/ But could not get it to work.

Gordy

[hvirtane]

Yes, you are right, that website is not there any more. The university for which I used to work, deleted it. There was nothing about using reflectors for cooling, just for cooking. I'm looking for a new place for those files.

The basic idea how to use reflectors to make ice or at least for cooling water you can read here:

http://www.solarcooking.org/radiant-fridge.htm

- Hannu

[TomW]

Hannu;

I'm looking for a new place for those files.

Pop on over to IRC and I will set you up an account in our gallery and you can stick some files there. Or you can upload most any files to your files area on fieldlines. [within reason].

I also have several webservers I can host files on for browsing, too.

Should not be too hard to get your files hosted someplace folks can get at them.

Cheers.

TomW

[DamonHD]

Or I can host the files if they're not too huge on earth.org.uk if you wish...

Rgds

Damon

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

The university for which I used to work, deleted it.

The internet archive ("wayback machine") has them.

But navigating them is a pain because they're so broken up and following each link is a new search.  So rehosting them would be great.

[hvirtane]

Hi,

thanks lots for that tip of the 'wayback machine'. They are here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

TomW: if you are interested in doing and archiving a copy of the whole stuff, I would really appreciate. I'm not at hoe at the moment but far from Finland and I cannot do easily anything for it just now.

I might put in the IRC later.

I will also tell my friends in Finland, that they could put the whole stuff at the website of 'Techoology For Life'.

- Hannu

[scottsAI]

Hi Gordy,

To validate the concept I bought:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93983

Tested it during the day: On a Clear day the sky will read 14'F, clouds read 145'F

When clouds block the sun to other clouds they read: 30-80'F.

Night sky; others reported measurements of -50 to 25'F readings.

I have yet to remember to test the night sky for the week I have had my sensor.

Clear night should allow cooling!

Check out Night cooling:

http://www.solarwall.com/home/whatsnew.aspx?grantid=2

The Emissivity of the material is important, not color dependent:

http://www.electro-optical.com/bb_rad/emissivity/matlemisivty.htm

High emissivity is a non reflecting surface: actually 1 - R = E

I keep wanting to build a black body fridge, designed one last summer, Yet to build.

Got distracted designing a zero energy home.

Have fun,

Scott.