solar panels credits in victoria,australia

[rgormley]

Please tell me if i read this correct or correct my thoughts if I'm wrong..

I`m having a 2 kw system installed. (fronius IG30 plus 11 x sharp 180 pv`s)

Panels make say 8-9 kw/hours per day (average) 10am-3pm

vic gov pays me net (60 cents)

say during the peak of the day (when i`m at work) i can "bank" or get credits on say 5 kw/hours allowing 3 kilowatt-hours for misc stuff on standby +fridge etc

So (5hours X 0.60c =$3) banked or credited to my account

when i get home of a evening and start using electricity i pull back from the grid at 0.16 cent per k/w hour

so the $3 banked during the day gets me $3 divided by 0.16c so i can use 18 hours worth to use up my $3 i banked

is this about correct??

[electronbaby]

Your question would be better directed at your utility... right??

[rgormley]

yeah s`pose, but it was a question thown out there also to see how many people on this forum have the system 1 or 2kw installed in Vic, Aust,

and get feed back from the real world as to what people are producing from there panels. (actaul readings from there inverter stats)

Cheers,

Richard

[BruceDownunder]

Well, I'm in Qld ,,I'm having a 1Kw installed ,but to answer your question, I think it goes like this ,,

 This is if you have a 3 month billing period---

at the end of 3 months your meters are read,, if you use more units than your solar meter units ,then you pay for the difference at ,say the 16c per Kw.

So, you would have to use less power and show a excess of units on your solar meter ,,say you go on holidays  or are very very frugal on consumption ,,you may have ,say, a few Kw excess that has been produced by solar.

Then this will be your credit ,,,,butt,,, unless it's more than $100 you will not get a cheque,they will keep it as a credit on next months bill,and so on.

I'm getting my 1 Kw for $345 ,so thats great, but the savings ,,just a drop in the bucket,say, around 10-15 cents a day ,, so to my way of thinking $345 expenditure is ok ,because later on ,I'll rip them off the roof and mount them on a tracker,add my 300 watts I've got now   and wire the house for 24v dc lights for night and a 240v inverter for say the frig.

Bruce

[richhagen]

To your credit down* there, it looks like you guys must have much better incentives on your installation of solar panels, and for any surpluses for net metering.  I am sure there are limits, but $345 AuD for 1000 Watts seems great, and $.60 Au Cents per KWh surpluss seems outrageously good, although I am sure there must be limits as to how much one can install, and how much surplus one is allowed to sell.  Rich

*'down' from a northern hemisphere centric point of view

[PaulJ]

   My understanding of the feed in tariff here in Victoria is that it's net annual metering with a maximum system size of 2kW peak, any excess paid at 60c/kWh.

   So no, rgormley, you can't "bank" the daytime excess at 60c/kWh, it's the excess over the YEAR that matters. The average household will not have an excess with this size system.

   Despite this, the installation subsidies are now so high here that it's probably worth installing a system anyway; if you earn less than $100k you can get a 1kW system installed for under $1000 after the government subsidy if you shop around, depending on your location (I think this ends in June).

   A 1kW system will average about 5kWh/day here, 5x$0.16/kWh = $0.80/day or $292/year, a massive 30% or so return on (after subsidy) investment. Even if you're in a cloudy part of the state and only get half the output the return looks good, remember it's offsetting money you would otherwise be paying to the utility so its not income therefore it's tax free.

   Paul.

   

[rgormley]

So what happens to the 60 cents i get per day when producing "extra" back in to the grid when i`m not home (Say 3 hours during 11-1 peak sunlight) asumung no clouds

Where does my "extra" daily 60c X 3 hours ($1.80) go?

This i see as a credit or banking towards my quartly bill...

Remember we (in Victoria) will be paid net exess back to the grid at 60c per kiliowat hour)

and the normal buy back rate from the grid is around 16/17 cent per kiliowat hour

i will produce extra at the middle of the day as i wont be home

or am i missing something in my thinking?

[BruceDownunder]

Hello Richard, nice to see you again, must be years since we had contact.

Ok, the way I see your case --you use say , 4 Kw between midnight and ,say,7am when you go to work . Now from 7am to ,say 4pm you still use power on the frig and hot water ,,but you are offsetting this by your sunlight driven solar panels.

So you still have the 4Kw or maybe a bit less that you haven't pumped back into the grid plus from 4pm till midnight you use more power,but no solar power is being pumped back .

So, you haven't produced any credit for this 24hour period,your still behind,,now say you had a 2 Kw system ,then you might be ahead at 1 minute to midnight ,,this will show as a credit on your meter and from midnight you will use it.

thats the way I see it ..

Bruce

PS , you still have that axial flux up?.

[rgormley]

"So you still have the 4Kw or maybe a bit less that you haven't pumped back"

yes but, isn`t it the other 4 kw`s (assuming a 8 kilowat/hour per day production) that WILL be pumped into the grid at 60 cents during those peak sunlight hours?

and if i pull back from the grid when the sun goes down, buying at a less price...

hhhmmm now my brain hurts.....

so maybe it`s a dollar production factor rather than a watt production factor i`m getting confused with?

As for the Axial flux turbine..i still have it although it`s been of the air for over a year.  Reason being the blades i used to power it were noisy when the wind gets up, it produced GREAT power in light/med winds (12v 20-30amps)

BUT when the wind gets up it was noisy and i had problems with blowing REC bridges up on the heat sinks (had 2 x 40amp rec bridges in parr they went poof and the magic smoke came out) lucky the bridges went short rather than open as i did not have a emerg shutdown switch.

SO now i have a 12volt 2500 watt comercial unit with a GREATLY scalled down set of blades, it runs 24/7 but only make small power average of 500ma with peaks of 5 amps in high winds.

I use it to "top off" car batts and the kids battery car.....

it runs 24/7 with NO noise at all so i`m happier with that rather than the "helicopter" noise of the old home built unit....

cheers,

Richard

[PaulJ]

 "Where does my "extra" daily 60c X 3 hours ($1.80) go?"

   It goes into the grid as kWh, not as 60c x kWh. It offsets the kWh you use, it does not offset your bill at 60c/kWh.

   If you produce more than you use over the course of a year, then you will get 60c/kWh for the excess.

   There's been a political s**tfight over this recently, some in the state govt. wanted the entire output of domestic systems to be paid for at 60c/kWh (including whatever the household used), others didn't want to risk increasing the average punter's electricity bill with such a subsidy.

   The others won, with net annual metering being the result.

   Paul.

[rgormley]

"If you produce more than you use over the course of a year, then you will get 60c/kWh for the excess."

so i if i make surplus power of 3kwh per day extra into grid every day that`s 365day X 3khw X 60C

that`s $657 so i can save $1.80 every day from my daily usage bill??

or should i get some sleep and think on this as i simply don`t get it??...

Cheers!

[rgormley]

here is a vic gov stament

does not say anything about yearly averages

http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/newmedia.nsf/798c8b072d117a01ca256c8c0019bb01/43fb9ccd336
1fe7cca2574440007d1ff!OpenDocument

[PaulJ]

   "so i if i make surplus power of 3kwh per day extra into grid every day that`s 365day X 3khw X 60C

that`s $657 so i can save $1.80 every day from my daily usage bill??"

   If the 3kWh per day is system output less daily consumption, you'll do better than that.

   Let's assume the panels produce an average 9kWh/day over the course of a year.

   Let's also assume you use an average 6kWh/day over the course of a year.

   The first 6kWh produced by the panels offsets your electricity usage to zero, the next 3kWh is sold to the grid at 60c/kWh, so you should get paid $657 by the utility ( less the service charge for the privilege of having the powerline come to your house).

   Now let's change the assumption about your usage; say it was an average 20kWh/day over the course of a year.

   In this case the entire 9kWh output of your panels offsets your electricity use, leaving you to pay for the 11kWh you used from the grid. No 60c/kWh, just a reduced electricity bill.

   It doesn't matter that your meter may have been spinning backwards during the day, you don't start getting paid 60c/kWh as soon as that happens, it's the net production or use (in kWh) over a period of time that determines whether you bank a cheque or pay a (reduced) bill.

   The 60c only comes into it if you use less power over the year than your system produces.

   Very few people with such a system will ever sell a single kWh to the grid, the only exception being people wealthy enough to be installing a system on a rarely used holiday house.

   Paul.

[rgormley]

t doesn't matter that your meter may have been spinning backwards during the day, you don't start getting paid 60c/kWh as soon as that happens, it's the net production or use (in kWh) over a period of time that determines whether you bank a cheque or pay a (reduced) bill.

what "period" is it??

i read you stated a year? where did this "yearly" figure come from??

PS thanks for the informative info on this subject

Cheers!!

[PaulJ]

  I might have to eat my words here, I've been basing my information on discussions with Powercor (local utility) a few months back when we were considering getting the grid hooked up and modifying our existing off-grid setup to grid tie.

   It seems things have changed (or are about to change) more than I thought if this article is correct-

   http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/dpinenergy.nsf/LinkView/47D19C1C08345367CA25736A001FCDF7866B51F390263B
A1CA2572B2001634F9

   The FAQ's further down the article are interesting.

   They're talking about smart meters that, as you originally surmised, can credit your bill at 60c/kWh for short periods when output exceeds use.

   I can see why you're confused about this, it took me half an hour of searching through bad journalism and ministerial press releases to find that gem, and I certainly wouldn't bet that it's the definitive last word on the subject. The premium feed in tariff is still in the pipeline and I would like to see the fine print on an actual contract before I really believe or understand it.

   Sorry for unintentionally adding to your confusion, but thanks for asking the question, I've learned something here.

   Paul.

[rgormley]

have a read on this web site

where he says "see maths"

http://www.solarshane.com.au/

[rgormley]

and this for an idea?

i will be geeting my 2k pv for $12 out of pocket OK....

so whats stopping me getting "mums" place with a 1 kw system from origin ($1990) out of pocket

i will pay for mums house and once it`s up i can rip the 1 kw of panels from the roof and add them to my  2 k

SO i have 2+1 =3kw!! and the 3rd kw cost me $1990

is there a stipulation that is has to be on the house for a period of time?

hey, once ive paid for it , it`s mine to do as as i like? yeah?

i know that i break the 60 cent /2kw cap but maybe the extra 1 ke can be installed later! if they change to 10 kw cap gross like in ACT.