Author Topic: steel batteries? (Read 9155 times)

amiklic1 · « **on:** April 15, 2005, 08:08:34 PM »

I found many so called "steel batteries" ( so called in Croatia). They came from a train. They are 12 V, 300 Ah each ( 10 smaller batteries, each 12V 30 Ah connected in paralel, in metal frame). About 70 cm long, 15 cm wide and 18 cm tall).

It's about 27 1/2" x 6" x 7". Also they're VERY HEAVY.

The man that gave them to me told me that I can discharge them and charge as many times I wish, even if I they come totaly empty.

Does anyone have some more info on something like that???

Sorry, but I didn't have time to put some pics. Maybe later.

THX

N9WOS · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2005, 02:31:28 PM »

I think you are referring to an Edison battery.

They use to be called "Iron clad" batteries

in the united states. (60+ years ago)

Otherwise called "nickel iron" batteries

They were called "iron clad" because they use to be

made with a steel electrolyte container (outer case).

The electrolyte doesn't attack iron based materials. (iron/steel)

So, Edison, the inventor, originally designed them with a welded steel case.

Only problem with that was, the battery cases has to be insulated from each other.

They had glass or rubber for electrical insulators inside the battery.

Where you are at, they have evidently taken

a bit of a different nick name for them.

That being "steel batteries"

Peter V · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2005, 03:11:23 PM »

Sounds like Edison cells. Instead of lead they use nickle and iron for the plates. Heavy as heck and they gas a lot while charging so you have to top them up frequently. But they last just about forever.

If you have enough surplus power that you can live with the relatively low efficiency and don't mind watering them frequently, they are an excellent choice for backup power.

Big All · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2005, 03:58:03 PM »

Does anyone have any links to diy/homebrew ironclad batteries?

The only thing I've found so far have been Edison history lessons.

Are these things doable in a garage/basement enviroment?

nick02 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2005, 04:09:22 PM »

I bet they are also named after ironclad warships (big heavy and made of iron).

http://www.ushist.com/reenactors/nav_addl.htm

jimjjnn · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2005, 09:04:29 PM »

Do these NI-FE batts gas like lead-acid batts? If they don't , I think you could use them in a house. Be a good place as they do use a lot of distilled water. I understand that they also have a mineral oil on top of the water/electrolyte to keep water from boiling(?) off a little less.

stop4stuff · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2005, 01:08:14 AM »

Found a couple of links to info (googled for nickel iron batteries)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery

http://www.powerstream.com/BatteryFAQ.html

They seem to be a good choice for EV's and deep discharge although the energy per weight is less than that of lead acid batteries.

paul

Nando · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2005, 11:52:51 AM »

Iron batteries = Ferro Nickle Batteries, they were built using steel and/or glass casing.

My family have had them since the beginning of the 200 Century and some of the farms still have them, 24 or 48 volts, the voltage basically is 1.2 volts/cell but need around 1.59 volts charging voltage/current.

Large because the Steel and/or Nickle surface was not expanded, there are several companies that are trying to develop spongy Steel and Nickle to increase the current carrying capability per effective total metal weight.

If the expanding succeeds, a battery size equal to a car battery may have more than twice the Amp-Hour capacity and the life of the battery may be un-limited, with periodic replacement of the electrolyte ( Potassium Chloride), and the weight may be around 7 to 10 pounds.

The farm batteries ( more than 100 years old) have the electrolyte replaced about every 12 or 18 months since the batteries are open ( mineral oil covers the electrolyte to keep it from the air oxygen that reacts with it).

Regards

Nando

troy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2005, 01:45:45 PM »

The primary disadvantage of conventional Nickel-Iron batteries is they have a high self discharge rate, and are inefficient compared to lead acid. So they go dead fairly rapidly, even without a load, and you have to put much more electricity in than you get out. The big advantage is that they may last 50 years if not mistreated and with occasional replacement of electrolyte.

Best regards,

troy

amiklic1 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2005, 02:47:01 PM »

Yes, you're right. I didn't know the right name, but after I found it, here is something I found:

"Nickel-iron batteries (NiFe), also known as iron electrodes, are the most important commercial rechargeable system using iron electrodes. They are nearly indestructible, have a long life, and can withstand electrical abuse (overcharge, overdischarge, short-circuiting, etc.). They generally cost more than lead acid batteries and have a low cell voltage, low power density, and lower energy density than competitive systems. "

It seems that I could use them for my mountain cabin. Watering them isn't a big problem, and since they are placed outside the cabin, in separate concrete "box", I thing that gasses they produce while charging are not going to make any damage.

Thanx!

isoutar · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2010, 04:33:29 PM »

There is a section under storage that outlines the nickel iron batteries. For those who do not wish to use lead acid batteries ... since they are a consumable in effect and only last for 3-12 years,

I bought brand new ones from China and they are superb. Plus I am 61 years gold and the batteries will last longer than me! They infact start about 60% efficiency ... as long as they are sized for the job and rise to 80% when they are abused sufficiently by overcharging and totally discharging. This was Edison's recommendation for conditioning them.

I have abused mine for fun several dozen times. The boost in capacity after abuse was low ... about a 15% increase in capacity. Sometimes I skip the controller completely and have run them with no controller for a month. That was not a good idea because I had to top them up weekly with distilled water. Using an Outback MX60 MPPT controller I only have to top them about 4 times a year I estimate.

There is a nickel iron battery association site http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com and you will find out most of the technical information from there. Lots of companies selling them outside of North America. In North America the Exide Battery Company bought the manufacturing process form the Edison Storage Battery Co in 1972 and immediatly took them off the market after paying several hundred million for the information. Many believe Exide took them off the market because they do not wear out.

They are ideal for solar. Elsewhere on this site there are other postings.

Ian Soutar

JW · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2010, 08:23:38 PM »

Ive heard of these batterys, if you can determine if the electrolite is KOH then they are SILVER/IRON Batterys. 300 cycles at "total" discharge is possible. Are they made by Westing House?

JW

WindriderNM · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2010, 07:46:41 AM »

Here is a link to a US manufacture of these batteries
http://www.zappworks.com/index.htm

Has anyone tried these?

I will be replacing mine and am considering these.

WindriderNM · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2010, 07:49:21 AM »

Here are more suppliers of these batteries

http://www.beutilityfree.com/Electric/Ni-Fe USA supplier of NiFe batteries

http://www.zappworks.com/ USA manufacturer and supplier of NiFe batteries in Montana

http://www.microsec.net Canadian Supplier of ChangHong batteries, Victoria BC

www.changhongbatteries.com Changhong Battery Manufacturer in China

http://www.ironcorepower.com.au Iron Core Power in Australia, Dealers in Solar and NiFe Batteries

http://www.agofuelcells.com AGO Environmental Electronics in Canada (custom orders, also sells hydrogen fuel cells)

http://www.accumkursk.ru Kursk Accumulator Plant NiFe Manufacturer in Russia

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