Can Trojan T-105 batteries last almost 8 years ?

[somethingfromnothing]

Since I am new to all of this I have a question about Trojan batteries in the REAL world.

My neighbor has been on solar for a long time. He says his Batteries lasted him almost 8 years! Can this be at all true ? He says its no big deal , just size your bank at 6 times your daily KW use to keep them from discharging more than about 15%.

I find this so hard to believe.....8 years off of T-105's ?

He says even further that he is not even going to bother with Trojans this time , but pick some other battery that is the same size but just as good/on sale.

Please straighten me out !  

[inode buddha]

Well, I can't see why not. I bet its entirely possible with a properly engineered setup. I'm no expert at all, but I do know that I've purchased 10 year old cars that still had the original battery.

[windstuffnow]

  I'd like to believe thats true... I have 6 years on mine and very seldom have they gone below 80%...  Ask me again in a couple years if they made it to 8... When I installed them I was told 3 years max by the cart shop but I think he was refering to his experience of those in the golf carts.

Hav eFun

Windstuff Ed

[wdyasq]

I got 7 years from a set of batteries on a light commercial truck, no special care.  I believe 10-12 years should be possible with light discharge and proper care in a controlled temperature enviornment.

Ron

[Psycogeek]

from the stats he gave, and from what i have read, HIS should.

so can you ask him a question for me?

i would like to (magically) have enough total capacity to be able to reduce deep discharge, but to keep Way more battery topped off, could take up lots of juice too.

can you ask him how much power his system takes to counter Self-Discharge?

even fully charged battery self discharge a BIT, and if his battery bank is all totally charged up, and he is just HOLDING that charge at the exact same place, how many amps or watts or something is it taking to do that?

[somethingfromnothing]

He says he based his bank on 3.1 Kw use a day , battery bank is 12v , using 14 t-105's. He has 4) 80 watt kyoceras (I think), and a wind generator for last 3 years.He says the wind generator is what is giving his system the added power to stay pretty much topped off .

We both have about the same sized cabins(about 600 sq/ft) , he has lived there for 15 years.

The first batteries lasted 3 years(6 batteries) , second set lasted about 5 years(10 batteries).

As you can see he has a rather small system.

I Initially thought his storage bank was way oversized , but now know why my batteries only lasted 2 1/2 years. I was just getting ready to buy another set , but now considering using the T-105's and greatly enlarging my bank.

He says he is getting his new batteries at Sams club ! I personaly feel his might be a big mistake.

Oh ! He said his system is capable of around 1200 watts/hr  during winds over 15 mph. His wind generator is like one that is built on here. It is not very reliable though , keeps having blade problems in high winds. Its about a 8 to 10 footer I would say.

We are in St Johns Arizona , and get wind to 10mph or more nearly every day.

He has a Heart inverter , and dumps power into a 30 gallon hot water heater.

His battery bank is outside his "power building" in a insulated cabinet, right under his wind tower. all the controls are there too. Its about a 100' run to the cabins standard  utility box. His cabin is wired just as a regular house would be , No seperate 12v outlets at all.

Im just still AMAZED that batteries can last that long........Will save alot of $$$ in the long run I hope.

[Psycogeek]

so his low-voltage is wired very close?

 and he converts by the batteries?

then the 100' line to the cabin is at 110-120AC ?

where is the hot water dump?

[somethingfromnothing]

Yes ! Its inverted (120v.) to the house at appx 100 feet away.

I thought he was heating his hot water for the house , however he tells me that he uses propane for that and is using a seperate electric water heater (located at the small building where his batteries , inverter , solar panels , etc are) to dump the sometimes excessive power into and just circulates it back into his water storage tank.

It is a waste doing it that way , but I guess they just have nothing else to power.

Im quite impressed at this point , and am currently doing my plans as exactly the same as his.

By the way , his propane bill runs about $20 a month !

Unfortunate is the fact that Propane frige is expensive , and so is the inverter.

Please remember... they are an older couple that are energy conscious , though they have ALL the necessities they use them sparingly , and sensibly.

He even has  motion sensors on the bedroom , kithchen , and bathroom lights , and also on the entry light.

I guess as they got older , they dont have to worry about turning them off.

[ghurd]

I have had good luck with the Sam's Club golf cart batteries.

The oldest abused set I can think of is about 4 years old, and spend a month every winter around or below 50%, of that maybe a week a year so low the inverter will not start.

But they are not used, only charged, for 3 summer months.

In a solar powered school.

G-

[somethingfromnothing]

Hmmmm!!!! Maybe I should consider the Sams Club batteries

He says they are less than $50 each , and probably just as good.

Even if they arent, Im sure it would be better for me anyway , since Im adding 8 more than I have now.

[ghurd]

At Sam's I get a pair, with a $100 bill and a few pennies back, including 6% tax.

My cost on Trojan T-105's just went to $80 -something each before tax!

I will obviously be using the Sam's batteries for the foreseeable future.

Its a better deal even if they only last 2/3 as long.

And I have not noticed any difference between them at all,

even though the Sam's are rated a little lower.

Just my experience...

G-

[halfcrazy]

one of my friends has a small auto parts store and he claims there are only a couple major battery manufactureres out there witch when you really look at them you can see a lot of similarities the caps of my exide golf cart batteries are the same as the interstate counter parts. makes you wonder how often do we pay for a name? and sizing a bank at 6 times daily usage makes sense this gives you 3 days worth of power and still be at 50%.

[nothing to lose]

If they can they should use the hot water they make as a dump load and also save on that propane bill.

With a lot of products there are only a few actaul manufactorers but alot of brands. Nothing new about that, but it does not mean all the brands are the same just because the same factory makes them! Look at many product brands themselfs, how many brands offer a low quality cheap version and also an expensive high quality version with the same brand name? Take TV's for example, how many various types and sizes carry the Sony name or Sanyo name?

Recordable DVDs are another good example, only a few factories world wide, but tons of brands. Look at various disk brands closely and you will see one factory is making total crap most of the time and it has several brand names, but then the same factory makes great disks for one specific famous brand name also. Thats about the only decent disks they make that you can trust to work, probably the company that owns that brand has set the specs for those disks and quality controll is far better on those disks, and of course those famous brand disks are far more expensive than the crap ones the factory makes under other lesser known names.

Hmmm, only one major brand of Spagitie and meatballs in a can, I wonder what factory makes those generic brand cheaper cans of the stuff that is almost exactly the same, but not quite

[ghurd]

Trojan had a recall back around '99. Something about a weak internal wire.

They listed a ton of brand names that were included, well if 5 or 6 is a ton.

Found it... Nothing spectacular, just interesting.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml99/99064.html

G-

[ghurd]

BTW. I think Sam's had 'Action Pack' around then, a name listed by Trojan as theirs.

[somethingfromnothing]

Thanks a bunch !

I believe he said the same thing , Sams club are the same as trojan !

[sunpow]

We powered our house for nearly 10 years on 6 6volt 220ah Turbo Start batteries manufactured in New Carlisle, PA. We generate about 22amps of charging power at maximum and do not use a controller. Four of these cells are still being used to power an outbuilding with minimal use.

[somethingfromnothing]

Thanks for that Info . Im beginning to feel a bit better than I had been. I realized that my battery bank was way undersized , with 40% or more discharge all the time.

Im going to be getting 14 new ones as soon as Sams club gets more(neighbor bought ALL they had yesterday).

Now my bank will be sized for only about a 12-15% discharge. They should last a good long time that way.

[scrounger]

Trojans seem to last longer than most, but mine that are 1999 vintage have lumps around the positive terminal, BUT still do well.  They have a different plate paste than most and seem to be able to tolerate a bit more abuse.  I just checked new ones locally at $68 and then another at $63.  I'll pay the little bit extra for the top-of-the-line version.  

Skip

[hayfarmer]

 




at 1 site I have going on 11 years on sealed  agm batteries that have been mostly on float charge,they are nearing the usefull life span though have to do some testing not

getting much time out of 5 batteries in parallel . the key to longevity is don't suck it down more than 20 % S.O.C. and a 3 stage charger that is properly set for your type of

battery to maintain float and battery sensor. JMHO

hayfarmer

[madlabs]

More thumbs up for Sam's club batteries. Mine will be 2 years old in June. Never have discharged them more than 20%. They seem exactly the same as when I got them so far. Mine say "Energizer" on them.

BUT, mine werent as cheap. Here in CA, Trojans were about $105 when I looked. The Sam's were about $80.

Jonathan

[ghurd]

More thumbs up for Sam's club batteries. Mine will be 2 years old in June. Never have discharged them more than 20%. They seem exactly the same as when I got them so far. Mine say "Energizer" on them.

BUT, mine werent as cheap. Here in CA, Trojans were about $105 when I looked. The Sam's were about $80.

Jonathan

The earlier prices were posted nearly 6 years ago.   Last I looked at Sam's in OH, about $80 each too.

We beat the Sam's/Energizers at the shop real bad for 3 months a year.  Might be below 12.2V for a couple weeks.
The oldest pair in the bank is around 10 years old.  The SG is fine.  Plates look OK.  Never tested the AH left in them.
G-

[dnix71]

I thought my 3-year-old batteries were getting weak but after adding more panels and a proper MPPT to control them my bank lasts a lot longer at night. The second controller isn't officially a 3 stage but that's how it acts. As the batteries get close to float it backs off a bit and at float shuts down and waits. The first controller never shuts down completely until dark.

The bank used to drop to 12.6 at night when resting, but now it holds 12.8 at rest. The capacity is there, too. After running 2 full loads of wash during the day, the nighttime voltage is a little lower than if I didn't do wash.

Sam's Club batteries are made by Johnson Controls. Crown has a better reputation. At work we have a bunch of Crown lifts. The service rep said they didn't cut corners on batteries because it cost them future sales. If a customer didn't get at least 5 years out of a battery in daily service they would feel cheated.

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-club-car/28634-gc8-sams-club-batteries-vs-trojans-t875.html

There is some recommended break-in on the Sam's batteries to maximize their life.

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-club-car/37016-buying-sams-club-cheaper-batteries.html

[SteveCH]

I don't and have never had Trojans, mine are C&D "forklift" batteries. I have had three sets of batteries, these are the only ones I bought new. I sized them for no more than 20% discharge, because back then I read that somewhere, the less discharge, longer the life. I was pretty ignorant of batteries, but I went with that.

Twenty years later, I am still using them. During that time, there was a spell of about a year during which I was unable to fully charge them...problems with my array and some other issues. Five years ago, I fixed the problems and added to the array. The batteries were, no doubt, damaged by that problem. They are going to need replacement before too long. Had I known what I was doing back then, and not damaged them, perhaps I'd be getting 25 yr. from them.

When I bought them, C&D told me to expect 6 to 8 years use. So, I am two and a half times that.

So, this is an unscientific report, but in my case, it would appear that sizing for small-percentage discharge is quite beneficial to battery life. I would think that Trojans would benefit likewise.

[fabricator]

Almost all deep cycle batteries in the US are made by Exide or Johnson Controls, I use walmart maxx marine everstart made in the US by Johnson controls, I know guys who get five-six years out of them in 24 volt trolling motor applications where they are routinely heavily discharged and get the snot pounded pout of them in bass boats.

[hayfarmer]

hope this chart helps save the batteries from abuse.  

hayfarmer

[joestue]

i'd like to see some lead acid cells get 1000 cycles to 55% dod.
assuming that's at the 20 hr rate, you would need about 2 years of non stop charge and discharge to get there.
i'd be happy if i could get SLA's to stand 3 years in float charge without the plates expanding in size by 5-10% and breaking in pieces.

[ghurd]

i'd be happy if i could get SLA's to stand 3 years in float charge without the plates expanding in size by 5-10% and breaking in pieces.

Might try not floating them 24/7.
I have an automatic charger that takes them up to about 13.8V, then stops until they fall back to like 13V?  (1.5A switcher, batterytender Jr?).
Might try building something that takes them to 13.8V, then stops until they fall back to 12.8V.
G-

[zap]

Might try not floating them 24/7.

Amen brutha!

From my experience, a decent quality sla will hold 90% of it's charge or better, left alone and sitting on the shelf for 6 months.