Author Topic: battery temperature  (Read 2311 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

windpower4me

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
battery temperature
« on: December 05, 2006, 02:24:19 AM »
I am in the process of building one of Hugh Piggott's axial windmills (2.4m).Where I live we get some pretty cold temps in the winter.I plan to build an inclosure next to the tower to house,the battery in the lower half and my inverter,charge controler,etc. in the upper half.these two compartments will be sealed from one another and the battery compartment will be vented to the outside.I'm going to insulate all sides of the inclosure with ridgid styrofoam insulation 1" thick.Should I also insulate directly around the battery(the battery is one out of an eletric palet jack 6-2v cells),or should I put in some sort of heat source say a low watt incandesant light bulb in the lower half to help keep temp above freezing?Any help on this would be great.


Tks.Robert

« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 02:24:19 AM by (unknown) »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2865
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 09:05:19 PM »
Speaking as one who knows some theory but hasn't

had extensive experience living offgrid with

a battery bank to maintain:


If you're actually charging / discharging the batteries they'll

put out quite a bit of heat.  Good insulation and merely ordinary

ventilation should let them keep themselves adequately warm.


Don't sweat freezing.  While low temperatures reduce the output

voltage, it's really hard to freeze a lead-acid battery even if

it's just sitting there rather than putting out heat from charge/

discharge.  (Have you ever had one crack in your car - even at

minus four farenheit?)  The acid is a pretty good antifreeze and

there's plenty in the water unless you've discharged your batteries

below the safe limit for decent battery lifetime (in which case

you'll be replacing them soon anyhow.  B-) )  Also:  Even if they

ARE nearly flat they're a considerable thermal mass.  So they

won't freeze quickly even on a minus-degree night.


You DO want to lift the bottom layer off the floor -

especially a concrete floor - by putting it in a rack

or putting something insulating under it.  Because the

voltage varies with temperature, sitting a battery on a

concrete floor (or other strong thermal mass) can result

in a temperature difference between the top and bottom of

the battery.  This leads to uneven charging, with the warmer

part discharging itself to try to overcharge the colder

part - with bad effects on lifetime and capacity.  (To a

lesser extent selective blocking of air circulation might

cause a similar issue.)  Keeping the battery off the floor

(like on open racks where air can circulate evenly around

the cells) mitigates this.


(This also lets you put an acid-proof drip catcher under

the whole rack so a leak won't put holes in the floor.)


For the same reason:  If you've got a battery with cells

paralleled you'll want the paralleled cells to be at about

the same temperature - so put them at the same height in

the racks.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 09:05:19 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

watermanhfl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2006, 04:37:45 AM »
I agree with ULR with one addition.  I would only insulate the battery with the 1" rigid foam and make it removable.  A battery degrades quickly above 100 degrees.  Per C&D the max is 110 and then it is ruined.  With a high ambient in the box and heat from charging you do not want insulation in the summer.

Check out my diary for my shed which I researched quit heavily.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 04:37:45 AM by watermanhfl »
10' axial on 50' tilt-up.  3.4k solar grid tied. Upstate NY

Shadow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2006, 06:48:51 AM »
The telephone company keeps theres at 77 degrees F, if that helps.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 06:48:51 AM by Shadow »

Volvo farmer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2006, 07:00:27 AM »
Good information here. I inquired on another forum about the effect of cold batteries, mine are currently about 45F in a box with 2" of foam on all sides. Outdoor temps here have been 0F-40F diurnally for a week or two.


Basically you're losing some capacity by having cold batteries. I never use more than about 10% of my capacity overnight so it's a non-issue for me. Someone even suggested that cold batteries should degrade slower than warm batteries. Cold batteries need a higher charge voltage, but most decent charge controllers do temp compensation nowadays.


I'd never use my precious electrons to heat a battery box. I did consider using some sort of solar thermal system to heat it. In the end, I painted my battery box black and decided not to worry about it so much.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 07:00:27 AM by Volvo farmer »
Less bark, more wag.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2865
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2006, 01:32:05 PM »
Sounds like you might want a thermostat and vent fan.  (Shouldn't take much fan - and thus much precious power - to swap out the hot air and keep 'em cool.)


Due to the risk of igniting hydrogen from battery gassing during charge I'd suggest a mercury-bulb thermostat and either brushless motors (such a computer pancake fans) and/or mounting the fans as intake blowers below the batteries.


Running intake rather than exhaust blowers might extend the lifetime of your fans by avoiding exposure to acid spray.  But it also runs the battery box at positive pressure, causing the exhaust to exit through all cracks as well as the top vent.  So you'd only want to run it that way if it was a separate building outdoors rather than an outside-vented box in the garage or barn.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 01:32:05 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Norm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • Country: us
  • Ohio's sharpest corner
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 06:32:14 AM »
  How about an induction exhaust fan ? That way

you would have negative pressure in the battery

box, but still would avoid exposure to acid spray

of the blower and motor.

  Of course it wouldn't be quite as efficient.

               ( :>) Norm.

           
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 06:32:14 AM by Norm »

Norm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • Country: us
  • Ohio's sharpest corner
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 06:35:51 AM »
  ....Or maybe I meant an eductor?

 Norm.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 06:35:51 AM by Norm »

ZooT

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2006, 02:49:58 PM »
Couldn't one just use the bimetallic "springs" out of a house thermostat as a machanical rather than electrical device to open or close lightweight vent flaps(maybe plastic?) in the sides of battery enclosure to control the internal temperature?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 02:49:58 PM by ZooT »

robl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: battery temperature
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 12:31:04 PM »
Neat idea. Along those same lines, you could use the little hydraulic green house door openers sold by Lee Valley. I have a bunch in my greehouse but never thought about using them for the battery shed...they will lift several pounds of door/vent vertically. I use them to open 2 foot by 4 foot vent doors horizontally (ie no weight on the opener, just return spring pressure).


Rob

« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 12:31:04 PM by robl »