battery rejuvanation idea?

[bob golding]

this link was put on one the other groups i am in. the cynic in me says it wont work for long but i am no chemist. anyone else come across this idea? any chemists in the group.

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html

cheers

bob golding

[zubbly]

hi Bob,

thats a very interesting piece of information.

makes me wonder if we took a brand new battery that has not had acid added yet, and put in the alum mix, how the longevity would be compared to standard lead acid. also wonder if the battery would sulphate with the alum mixture.

damn, now another project to try  

thanks for the info!

zubbly

[bob golding]

hi zubbly,

 thats a good idea, i might try it with a small motorcycle battery. they tend to be sold dry and they give you a bottle of acid to go with it. could try a a/b test and get 2 the same then try to kill them.

i try and avoid groups with titles like "water powered car" this one came up on the home energy group on yahoo.

bob golding

[Flux]

I am a bit surprised that Edison didn't come up with it if it showed much promise, he seems to have tried all the available options at the time.

I suspect it will still have sulphating problems. Lead sulphate will still probably form insoluble crystals once they go beyond the sulphate ion stage.

I agree with Bob that to be a useful test you would need a new battery.

Flux

[luckeydog]

I have a few Dead Batteries some have dead cells. I knew there would be something they could be good for. another project...lol thanks for the info.

.

[vawtman]

Hi Bob

 I recently bought a battery for my daughters 4 wheeler and was surprised the acid came in a jug with the battery.

 I wonder if you put that mixture in instead of the acid and didnt work you could take the battery back.Im sure they wouldnt bother to check it for the warranty.

 Wonder how this works in sub freezing weather.

[stop4stuff]

Looks like a good idea & something definately worth trying out.

I wonder if other metals could be used as the plates & if a truly homemade rechargeable alkaline battery could be made from scratch?

Here in the UK 'sodium aluminosilicate' is also known as food additive E554... the hunt for a supplier begins.

paul

[whatsnext]

How would aluminum sodium silicate form sulfates? Not that something else won't form I just don't think they will be sulfates.

[Flux]

Fair comment, I thought it was proposing to use Alum.

I just can't imagine how this sodium aluminium silicate is going to work at all, agreed that it won't sulphate.

Flux

[whatsnext]

If I read the first link correctly sodium aluminum silicate=alum. I read the first link and if you put this stuff into an old sulfated battery the sulfates would still be in there unlike using a new battery that would give you quite different chemistry. So, maybe it's like a new EDTA or something. I'll be interested in the results if someone tries using this on a new battery.

[whatsnext]

OK, I just read it again and the comments are kind of interesting. First, a lot of people don't know how batteries work, and second, people are happy to jump at about anything even if they have no idea what they are doing. Do you dump the old electrolyte before or after charging? There is no way the resulting electrolyte would be "totally noncorrosive" unless all the sulfates were cleaned off the plates before refilling so a test of a new, unfilled battery would be interesting. Even if all it is is a new cheaper type of EDTA that would not be a bad thing but from the sounds of the first link you end up with a completely different battery.

[stop4stuff]

After some considerable research into 'silicon' batteries, i finally came up with something very useful... a real world situation that the batteries are used in & their shortcomings.

http://visforvoltage.net/forum-topic/batteries-and-chargers/410-guineng-silicone-battery-performance
-e-max-post-mortem

paul

[whatsnext]

I'm not sure if this is "real world" or not. We know a lot about LA batteries but probably less about "silicon" ones. In that whole thread specific gravity wasn't mentioned once. That could mean the batts are sealed but, for us using open cased cells, that may not be an issue if we can just replace the electrolyte.

I've got to get a fresh battery and some alum,

John

[stop4stuff]

The research i conducted was into information based on Bob Golding's original link...

Alum aka sodium aluminium silicate is hydrated & used in 'silicon' batteries supplied to E-Max (german electric scooter manufacturer) by the Chinese company Guineng...

The link in my post above has hard data about the performance of those batteries in use in E-Max scooters... the poster in that link concludeds that for the purpose (as a deep cycle traction battery) , VRLA batteries are better suited than the 'silicon' batteries supplied with the scooters from the factory.

As yet i have been unable to find out any information about the 'silicon' battery chemistry (tho many patents are pending).

paul

[dastardlydan]

 Just a point mite help.

 Here is what it says on the bottle{ Add ALUM to homemade

pickles for cripness ,Use 1 tablespoon ALUM for each

gallon of vinegar called for,dissovle with the salt.

And thats right off the bottle

Yes it is a food stuff,

DanM

[whatsnext]

I'm just saying it's hard to determine why the batteries didn't work out for the scooter folks when we don't even know how they work at all.

[stop4stuff]

From what i read, it didn't work for the scooter folks because as the voltage drops & chemistry changes the internal resistance increases letting less amps out...

Also the life of the 'silicon' battery is reported by the scooter folks as having fewer cycles & as generally pretty poor compared to other battery types inc lead acid.

Maybe we'll find out what the batteries compose of once the patents are completed.

paul