Skids of Laptop Batteries...

[FrankG]

A unique opportunity has come-up where I may have access to 1, 2 or possibly as much as 4 skid loads of laptop batteries.

A local "E-Cycle" company I deal with has been stock-piling the cells from laptops that they tear-down as a function of thier Electronics Recycling work.

My thoughts are that there should be a fairly high yield rate on the cells, given that the vast majourity of the machines that they recycle are actually in good working order, but somewhat outdated.

My motivation for even considering this is that I see this as possibly a good way to get into some higher end storage technology for the current run of light EV projects I'm working on.

But have concerns about numerous unknowns...

1. Labour associated with dis-assembling 1000's of plastic boxes that currently hold the individual cells... All the plastic would be returned to the E-Cycler as they have a market for the resins, and as such I won't be stuck with it.
   
2. learning even the basics about the variety of Cell chemistries, size/capacity standards and charging technologies. Given the age I assume that I may have cells as old as NiCad, lots of NiMH, and the odd Li-ion.
   
3. Age related defects, are there time related issues with the various cell technologies, ie; cells may be shot just from sitting for 1 year uncharged?
   
4. Charging - This is a majour concern as I only know that the more advanced chemistries can't be charged with the simple chargers associated with Lead Acid, either Constant current, or constant Voltage or a mix, I really don't know.
   
   

Along with charging, I imagine that I'd have to build some sort of Multi-Testor that would apply a "Fast Charge" and be able to determine the capacity (health) of the cell.

5. Developing tools for assembling custom strings or packs for my applications. I've read about Capacitive Discharge Spot Welders for repairing and assembling cell arrays, so will either have to build or buy such a unit (I'm leaning towards the build option).
   
6. Disposal of "Dud Cells", I think I'd have to have some assurance that the E-Cycler will take the dud Cells, as I really don't want to get stuck with 100's of pounds of mixed chemistry cells on my property, or face an expensive disposal charge for the sake of a couple of 72V strings.
   
   

So, is this a great opportunity or just a hassle??? Given that the raw materials are free (My understanding is that I would be a "Value-Added" service to the E-cycler by seperating resins from packs and sorting the Cell chemistries on the dud's that would be returned)...

These packs have been accumulating over a 2 year period.

I really have no interest in becoming a Custom Battery assembler given the hassles of dealing with the public and the nature of the products coming from a used source.

Or would I be further ahead to save my time and energy and just buy assembled packs as I feel the need to rise above the weight and bulk of SLA technology. In reality given that the current crop of EV's that I'm running are just fine with either flooded or SLA at this time.

Thanks for any thoughts you have to offer.

FrankG

www.theworkshop.ca

frank@theworkshop.ca

[disaray1]

Frank-

  I had a similar situation awhile back, and ended up passing on it. This was a crate of all of the same used nicad packs, so no mismatched stuff. I considered how long it would take to disassemble, test, recharge, retest then sort, one million little batteries, not to mention build the new battery(s) and find or build a suitable charger. It would just absorb so much time, and the end product's reliability would be unknown. And I have had bad luck with used batteries- even when they test ok.

 My 2cents. BTW, love the Ebike- bring it to florida and lets ride it!

 David

 

[strider3700]

The vast majority of old laptops that I've had to junk/retire had dead batteries that barely held a charge or none at all.  I'd pass on a pile of them

[AbyssUnderground]

They'll also be lithium won't they? Dangerous if overcharged or not charged properly.

[jimjjnn]

I believe Dell and some othr omputers had a major defect in a lot of battry packs that caused fires and minor explosions. Some of these packs may be included ,also. My thoughts, I'd definitely pass on any used computer batteries at this time

[coldspot]

FrankG-

I'm not sure but, I thought I'd seen you at the

"visforvoltage" site,,..   ?

(72 volt Packs sounds like a great E-Bike Size)

:|

 Some guys like those types for their light weight E-Bikes. I know I'd like to play with more of them.

 I've been using a very old "Tekin" automatic peek NiCad Battery charger since around 1988-89 to charge just about any pack, (NiCad, SRC old style or newer SCE,{still very type}, from 3.5 to 10 Volt size) thats less than the 12 VDC it uses for in-put power, (straight off the automobile battery). I even used it tonight to charge an old Hitachi 9.6V cordless drill I have had forever that was missing the charger when I first got it for free 10+ years back.

 Darn newer Drills are all above 12 Volts and it is of little use for them.

 Anyway, I'd try to look them over and cherry pick from them and if you score some "A123" type you are in the best to date type.

my

$0.02

[ghurd]

Consider the cost of disposing of the 'bad' batteries.

It is crazy high.

I bet that is why "this a great opportunity".

Think about it.  

Many 'surplus catalog dealers' would love to get something like that?  So why do they have a 2 year stock pile?

Take the 3.8 skids of dead battery (pronounced "toxic waste") back and see what thay say.  Or ask what they charge to accept it.

Here there is a limit to what a resident can bring in for free.  4 Tires, 2 TVs, 1 PC, 1 microwave.

I know of a guy, who works at a place, that pays more to dispose of 8' FLs than it costs to buy them.  Thats all I'm saying.

G-

[FrankG]

Thanks to all for your comments!

I was sort of sitting on the fence, more so due to the shop space I'd lose and the time I'd have to invest to reclaim the space.

But the idea that I'd potentially get stuck with essentially "Toxic Waste" pretty much closes that door.

Though I may spend a bit of time looking at some sort of "Cell Testor" that I can take to the E-Cycler warehouse... As they have lots of space I'd be willing to spend a full day gutting packs and try to recover enough GOOD CELLS, for at least one project.

This would address the Storage & Disposal issues, which are really the main problems.

If I can't scavenge at least 1 72V 10Ah to 15Ah array in a day it definately isn't worth my time... (even then I should check what the price is for new, and reset my "break-even point on my time).

...fg

[asheets]

I'll add a bit from my experience in trying to do just this...

I managed to recover and identify several hundred 12650 3.7V LiIon cells in varying conditions, along with a handful of Cyclon brand 2V SLAs and an assortment of the new "poly" cells packs.  The 1st thing I did was get rid of the "poly"s -- WAY to dangerous to have around, as a quick look around YouTube will show you.

The 12650 cells are the same ones that you can get in Europe for military/police flashlights.  You can buy an appropriate charger on eBay.  DO NOT do what I did and try to build your own charger; as I discovered even a cheap HF 1W solar panel will screw these things up (and perhaps burn down your shed).

The next problem is rebuilding them into usable packs.  Regular soldering techniques don't work well on the tab-less cells, and tack-welding that close to the battery vents can be dangerous.  I ended up building a series of PVC and foil-lined wood packs to hold things together.

Result of my efforts -- my porch lights ran for 5 hours through a cheap inverter with 100 cells that I determined were "good".  I actually had better luck rebuilding an old UPS with the dozen of Cyclons that I recovered -- these are the same cells you'll find in old B&D DustBusters, so they are actually kind of rare to find with computer equipment these days.

[Bruce S]

Frank ;

 getting to this later than most but will add my lesson s to this tread.

If you have the chance, take a meter and check the packs. If 75% of them are good , then take the whole thing.

Norm and NTL has become the gurus of making battery packs search <Bruce packs :-)>out of the good ones I've sent them.

Most of the older ones will be NiCds. ALL of the ones I've dug into have a tab on them that if you use it for connecting to take solder real well even from a small 30watt iron.

NiCds & NmHi packs can take much more abuse than SLAs of other Lead Acid based battereis can.

One thing about them is that if they have been sitting for two years then if you test the packs and read anything less than 1/2 of the rated voltage don't even bother as most of the internal packs will have begun the reverse their polarity.

IF however most of them do read a good voltage then rewiring them for the voltages you want is straight forward and easy to do.

In the case of the units that burnt, overheated etc. was due to a bad chip inside the "smart" set of for the LiOn ones. At this point I'm still learning how to deal with those, but since they don't like be out in the cold and heance are not any good to me I can't give you any thing to go on.

The ones that are NiMh will give you about 300 full cycles before they really start to lose their usefullness.

The NiCds, I have cells that are still good with date codes on them from 1999, that weren't even close to be cared for until I took ownership. And they still test at a rate of 90%+ of the original 1300mAh.

Since I use these packs for my Alky and hydroponics stuff I don't baby them. I do have one pack wired for 19.2Vdc and since it came with multiple taps, I sue the 12V side to run a fan for the peppers to polinate and the little 1.5 watt PVs keep them charged on the 19.2V side.

I wouldn't write these off too soon, but maybe they're a diamond in the ruff:-)

To disponse of the bad ones , should you take onwership of the piles, most of the battery places will take them off your hand for free, in small doses. One such place, that I've donated a couple hunderd packs to is Batteries Plus.

NiCds are also very well suited for e-bikes , since they give up their power much easier than lead based batts do and they're weight to power ratio is much much higher. I took out 3 12V18Ahr batts packs that weighed in at 80lbs and put in 3 sets of NiCd packs rated at 16Ahr and could go the same distance and they only weighed in at less than 1/3 the original. These are the older ones, not the new 2100mAh ones but older 1300mAh ones.

Hope this helps to muddy the decisions:-) just hate to see a possibility pass by.

Cheers

Bruce S

 

[Bruce S]

Coldspot;

   Saw the I'd like to play with more of them. Where are you located? I have a few people's requests to fill but always willing to help with extras if you're wanting to play;-)

Cheers;

Bruce S

[TomW]

Bruce;

Can I get on that list??

Cheers.

TomW

[Bruce S]

TomW

You bet! I'll need an address to send them to.

As part our SOPs on proper disposal, I have to test each batt pack beofe they leave here. I am testing 2 used ones and two new ones , the new ones go into the medical equipment, the used ones go to my bin.

I currently have 2 people in line for a dozen each and I am trying desperatly to figure out a way to get some to Fungus, overseas shipping and stubborn customs people are making that umm interesting :-?

I haven't seen a reply back from Coldspot so I'll put you down for the next set, how many would you like?

I generally send out a mixture of the 4x4s and the 5x3 if that's okay.

Cheers

Bruce S

[TomW]

Bruce;

You have Mail.

Cheers.

TomW

[FrankG]

Bruce,

Thanks for the reply...

Now I'm back on the fence (at least until the new year) there is no way I can do anything till Xmas and Holidays are over...

I've saved this thread and will review again when I have some down time.

...fg