Building a system in stages with PV, Hydro and Wind

[Jedon]

I'm building a house off the grid but still want all my normal amenities so I want to eventually be producing quite a lot of power. The house will be on 98 acres in the woods in northern California so we get a good amount of sun ( it's not on the coast ).

HYDRO:

There is a spring that flows 30+GPH even in drought conditions that I would like to tap for some hydro, I should be able to get 100+ feet of head since it flows from around 3750FT and then empties into a larger creek at 3400FT over a span of around 2000FT. In another post it was speculated that I should be able to get 240KWh pretty handily.

PV:

Right now I have the HF 45W PV kit, 3 15W panels with an el-cheapo charge controller.

Eventually I would like to get 16 200W Kyocera panels or whatever is best at the time, but I'm hoping to start off with perhaps half that and work my way up as needed.

GENERATOR:

I have an Onan 6000W portable gas generator that I'll use until it burns out and then get either a diesel or propane generator that is a bit larger and will last longer and be quieter.  It has 120/240V AC as well as 12V DC out.

WIND:

I'd like to put up an Otherpower "Complete 10 foot axial flux wind turbine kit" as well, I'm not sure on the timing.

BATTERIES:

I have been using 2 6V golf cart batteries from Costco, charged from the HF PV kit to power the water pump, lights, radio etc in my travel trailer which we'll be staying in a lot while we build. Considering all the battery research going on right now I'm guessing that there might be some really cool developments within the next 10 years so adding more golf cart batteries sure seems appealing given their low cost, plus it's easy to add more as needed.

I don't want to buy the whole power system until the house is done and I know how much money I have left ( negative 100K? :-) ), so would like to build it up in stages so we have some power while we build without having to run the generator 24/7.

Here is what I was thinking to start off, charged from the HF Solar and Generator.

16 6v golf batteries ( 2 rows of 8 = 48V )

$1,280.00 200AH @6V, 100AH @12V, 50AH @ 24V, 25AH @48V, 25 * 16 = 400AH @ 48V

Inverter - Outback 3600W -VFX3648    $1,900.00   

Misc Solar Equipment, wire, cutoffs etc    $300.00   

Outback charge controller MX-60 $500.00   

Questions:

Is that too many batteries for the solar + generator?

Should I get a 200W panel or 2?

Will the MX-60 handle the load from the generator? ( 41A @ 120V or 8A @ 12V )

I figure the inverter will hold us for now, then we can add another one when needed, and investing in a good charge controller would pay off in the long run.

Thanks!!

-Jedon

http://darklingcastle.com

[spinningmagnets]

"...but still want all my normal amenities..."

Do you have a figure offhand of your average monthly kilo-watt-hour usage from your electric bill? "Normal" for one person is quite different for another.

Perhaps switch to your planned conservation appliances and then get a reading. I would recommend (from my research, I haven't gone RE yet) A Sharp Aquos LCD TV of the smallest size that you can live with, CFL/LED lights, chest fridge, etc...

"I got a letter from the IRS. Apparently I owe them $800. So I sent them a letter back and I wrote, "If you'll remember, I fastened my return with a paper clip, which according to your very own latest pentagon spending audit will more than make up for the difference." -Emo Phillips

[Jedon]

I have been monitoring my current energy use and taking steps to get it as low as possible. We were using 700-800KWh/month, then I started replacing all the bulbs with CFL's, ran a gas line so we could switch from an electric to a gas dryer, got an energy efficient washer (FP) etc. I got a Kill-O-Watt meter and started measuring everything.

In Feb we did great:

Last Year: 626 KWh

This Year: 381 KWh

March wasn't as good

Last Year: 700 KWh

This Year: 564 KWh

But we are always gone for a week in Feb so it's not true indication of a full months use.

I think we could be totally comfortable off of 400KWh/month

We have a 52" 1080p DLP that draws around 150W when in use, more troubling is the DVR which has to stay on to record shows and it draws a steady 120W.

Now the figures for last year it was just my wife and I, but this years numbers include our daughter who came back from college for a while but she won't be living in the new place since she'll be heading back off to college.

As far as refrigeration goes, none of the "solar" or propane fridges are at all satisfactory to my wife so they are right out!  

In conclusion, yes I have been thinking long and hard about conservation and have a pretty good idea of how much power we'll need.

-Jedon

[Jedon]

Questions:

Is that too many batteries for the solar + generator?

Should I get a 200W panel or 2?

Will the MX-60 handle the load from the generator? ( 41A @ 120V or 8A @ 12V )

[DamonHD]

We just bought a larger fridge/freezer (taller than us!) that uses much less than 1kWh/day our of our total 6kWh/day gross consumption.

Rgds

Damon

[Jedon]

I just looked at some fridges on line and found one that fits the bill that uses 465KWh/year or around 1.3KWh/day which is 10% of our estimated power usage of 400KWh/month ( 13KWh/day)

[DamonHD]

If you manage to cut your usage elsewhere, you may come to regret having a fridge use more than 1kWh/day.  After all, you can't economise by turning it off some of the time: you're stuck with its load day in day out for years!

Rgds

Damon

[ghurd]

I agree.

That extra 300Wh/day is more batteries, inverter losses, solar, whatever, etc. for the next 20 years.  Seems like a bit more bucks for the fridge would be a worth while investement.

In perspective, that 300Wh is about 4~5 hours a day on a laptop or LCD TV, or a 13W CFL running 24/7...

or about twice what the HF kit makes.

G-

[Bruce S]

Unless you're a real nice person and get a full slightly used set for free:-)

Cheers

Bruce S

[Jedon]

Honestly I plan on generating quite a bit of power eventually so that I can have guests, hold events etc, so saving a few KWh on a fridge that will annoy my wife and I isn't a really good option.

I'd rather figure out how to fully tap the hydro potential of the property.

[ghurd]

Hydro is great.

Keeping the wife happy is even greater.

But if the batteries and system is large enough to be decent for everyday life,

then the once-a-month thing isn't important.

Bruce is just plain mean when mentioning his free solar panels.

G-

[Bruce S]

Sorry,   Shouldn't have done that. City still won't let me put them back up yet..

The hydro as I've read here is truely the best way to go. more output for the money.

Cheers

Bruce S

[stephendv]

You didn't mention what the capacity of the batteries are?  

As for the MX-60, it's only for charging the batteries from the PV.  The generator would charge the batteries through the Outback inverter/charger.  

[stephendv]

I also wanted to mention the SMA Sunny Island inverters as they could be useful in your setup where you need flexibility in the components.  The nice thing about these inverters is that you connect all your power sources on the AC side.  So no worries about matching voltages etc, everything runs on plain old 240VAC (in europe and 120VAC in US).  I think there's a caveat that you then have to buy your solar and wind inverters from the SMA as well and have them factory configured to work with the sunny island system.

Video explaining the concept here:

http://www2.sma.de/en/solar-technology/products/specials/energy-supply-for-power-grid-distant-areas/
index.html

The concept seems quite new and I haven't yet found anyone with real world experience of this technology... interesting though.