water lines heat

[thirteen]

In order for me to run my newly found spring to my house I will need to cross a creek. I was untop of the hill three days ago and looked over and located a patch of green about 15ft long.  With everything else dead it it was still hard to see. Water is real gold.

I have a culvert with two lines I will run thru the middle with braces to keep them centered.  Yet together.  They are both 1 inch I will fill the culvert with insulation and have one end go into the diversion box where I can divert the water in the creek and drain my system or just shut it off.

I have found a small 12v fan, a inverter cooling fan and will modify it to fit the 1 in pipe. My idea is to run the fan pulling warm air from the house thru the pipe and out to the diversion box.  When the temp. gets cold, it should warm the culvert and keep the lines from freezing. It would only have to be on part of the time.  The water line will be 18-24 in. under ground. The culvert water line will be under the foot bridge. 12 in. culvert.  Any suggestions?  Any problems anyone can see?

[WXYZCIENCE]

When you say cold, just how cold are we talking about?


Joseph.

[scottsAI]

Hello Thirteen,

How far away are you trying to warm up? Pipe length?

What is the frost line or how deep does the soil freeze max during the winter?

The specific energy of air is very small, in other words it does not carry much heat.

Water carries about 1000 times as much. Some day I should look up the number.

Insulation value varies all over the place, what is the R value of what your going to use?

Have fun,

Scott.

[GaryGary]

Hi,

Have you thought about just letting the water run a bit to prevent freezing?

I used to put in time at a volunteer ski lodge, and thats how we kept the water line from freezing all winter.  It run several hundred feet, and some of it was not even buried.  Just a thought

Gary

[thirteen]

down to -20 at the longest 30 dys

[thirteen]

30 ft 16 to creek 14 ft to switch box, frost 12-15 inches at the most until it snows then you can dig anywhere culvert will be filled with foam  am not sure of the R value  Crossing the creek is my biggest worry.

[thirteen]

yes I have used the idea of letting the water run but that was not potable water. The spring I will be useing flows very slowly. Estimated flow 35-45 gal.an hr at best. It will go into a 500g holding tank  I could but a pipe the goes back into the creek I think That the extra water would effect my septic tank. It goes ikn next July 4.

[thefinis]

For a buried insulated line that flow should be enough to keep it flowing. Some of it depends on the temp of the water at the spring in the middle of winter. The deeper you can tap the spring the more constant the water temp should be. Are you sure the spring flows in the winter and doesn't freeze?

I do not think that the extra flow will be a problem most of the time. If you pipe the extra flow away from the house it will need to be buried too. A spot downhill a little ways from the house should handle that little of extra water. Make sure the wet area isn't in a travel path. If you want to get fancy and do more digging then dig a hole deep enough to be below buried pipe level and fill it with rocks.

Your system should work as long as water is running but if shut down in =0 weather expect it to stay shut down till spring thaw. That well insulated system is a double edged blade it works to keep it from freezing but if it ever freezes then it works to keep it from thawing.

Finis

[dinges]

You do realize that as you pump hot air out of the house, towards your pipes, that the air has to be replaced by other air? Most likely this is cold outside air. So your heating bill would go up, to heat that cold outside replacement air.

I know there exist electrical heaters for waterpipes. Have never seen or used them myself.

Also, adding a drop of glycerine to potable water drastically reduces the temperature at which it freezes. AFAIK glycerine isn't poisonous.

Just some random thoughts I had.

[richhagen]

Just a note, I find my 50 amp arc welder works wonders at thawing frozen galvanized iron water pipes.  The resistance in the pipe is greater than the welding cable, and heats it to the point of melting the ice in frozen basements and such.  Just connect one lead at one end, and connect the other through 4 or 6 guage wire for a short bit.  It turns the pipe into a resistance element.  Watch the welder so that it doesn't over heat.  It would probably work on the buried pipe if iron and accessable over short enough runs.  Rich  

[thirteen]

I should have said something I heat with wood and cook with wood the 12v will be from the battery system.  There is no elect. up there.

The best engineer I have seen was one that his dad sent him to school and the agreement was he would work for him for two years after school to pay for the school.  When he came back his dad gave him a shovel and a pair of gloves but he has his own Engineer business but he is good.  

[dinges]

"The best engineer I have seen was one that his dad sent him to school and the agreement was he would work for him for two years after school to pay for the school.  When he came back his dad gave him a shovel and a pair of gloves but he has his own Engineer business but he is good."

Ok. In that case, if I were you, I would ask HIM for his opinion, not some total strangers on this board.

[WXYZCIENCE]

Ok. In that case, if I were you, I would ask HIM for his opinion, not some total strangers on this board.


Peter, I thinks this dad is generic not genetic.


Joseph

[nailed]

Why not circulate the water.  Run two lines and use a small DC pump.  You would not have to use the pump until it got cold.

[thirteen]

thanks I'll have to think about it