Deep Off Grid Well Pumping

[Off Grid Jeff]

I have a 465' deep off grid well with 55gpm on 20 unimproved ~flat acres in Northern CA. I googled one source that claimed solar systems can pump 500', however, 2 locals have told me they could not do it and that a 220 volt pump is the only reasonable solution.

I don't plan on building a home for 5-10 years, however, for now I would like to build a shop with a shower and toilet and the septic system, and be able to pump water with a portable generator (preferably 110 volt) several times a year,and be able to use the pump with solar and/or wind when we build the house. This would first be a retreat and down the road I would like to integrate this work into the home.

I know there is no simple answer, however, can anyone tell me if this is in the realm of possiblity?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Nando]

Jeff:

First you need to determine what power you need to be able to draw the water and for how long ( for every ON cycle).

Then one can determine what type of power you need to provide via storage batteries, if such is the case, and the power source you may think to have, like wind mills, solar panels and most important if you have a small stream, the volume and the head the stream may have.

If batteries plan for at least 48 volts, and depending on the overall needs you may think about a much higher voltage like 140 volts DC.

Nando

[kenputer]

What is the static water level,making that much water you should only need to be in the water a short depth not down the 400 + feet.

  I had a well that was only 25' making 12 gallons and with a jet pump could not pump enough out to see the water level change.

Ken

[wdyasq]

Many use a catchment system when water wells are deep, have poor water or not available. One square foot of roof will yield ~a gallon of water for each inch of rain. It can be a lot less expensive than a well in some cases.

Ron

[Off grid in Tonopah]

    I live in AZ and have a 500 foot well. Being off grid I pump my well with a generator once or twice a week into a 2500 gallon storage tank. From there I used a demand pump (115V RV pump) to supply my home. Never had any problems with water and always had plenty of pressure. I recently upgraded to a shallow well centrifugal pump as the demand pump made noise my wife didn't like. It also uses little power and my inverter carries it no problem. The upside of this setup is my well pump only runs once or twice a week instead of coming on every time someone flushes the toilet. Much less wear and tear on my down hole equipment.

    As for pumping with solar it should be no problem even if you're pumping one or two gpm. If you're going to a storage tank it adds up fast. And as stated the static head in the well is probably less than the 500 ft. So do some searching on the net and you'll see plenty on well pumping with solar, you should be fine as long as you don't want to pump and supply pressure directly to the house with your down hole solar pump.

                                               Bob

[wdyasq]

Correction - ~.6 gallon of water per square foot with an inch of rain ....

Ron

[Dozzer7]

I have a 350 ft well with 110 static. I put a 3/4 hp 220v pump in the bottom and pump it without restriction into a 1000 gal holding tank. From there I use a 220V 15GPM variable speed grounfos to pressurize the house. The holding tank pump remains on all the time and is shut off by transducer control. The deep well I pump every few days.

All of my ac is coming from 2 3500 watt outback invertors. I use solar and a 6.5 hp Kubota/24v 70 amp alternator to chage my batteries. If I start the Kubota, I usually flip the breaker to turn on the deep well. Not exactly a hands off setup, but not much of a drama either

 

[Off Grid Jeff]

Hello everyone, this was my first post to this forum and I really appreciate your replies.

Off grid in Tonopah, what kind of generator do you use to pump to your storage tank, is the pump 220v?

Jeff

[Off grid in Tonopah]

I have two generators both 15 KW. One is an older Onan that is propane and the other is an Isuzu diesel. I use the propane as a backup to the diesel as the diesel is much cheaper to run. They need to be that large to run my AC in the summer (115F+) and you need a backup as your only one broken fan belt from being screwed in the summer without a backup, but I only use them once or twice during the week for an hour or two the rest of the year. I top off my batteries and pump the well while the wife does laundry and such. The rest is solar and the Lakota wind turbine I just put up. Which is working much better now. (Thanks Jerry/Flux for the help.)

                                                Bob

[ghurd]

'Conergy USA', formerly Dankoff, has the Lorentz pump series. Up to 760' lift.

G-

[hydrosun]

I'm using a  Grunfos submersible pump in  a 150 feet deep well to pump into a pressure tank.  The pump has built in electronics to convert to efficient three phase  and to do a slow start to prevent a surge in power needed. This allows it to be installed with lighter poly pipe because it won't try to twist. So I can pull it by hand. It's very efficient so it can run on a smaller inverter.

 I've replaced larger  pumps installed by well drillers with these more efficient pumps and people could pump with their inverter systems instead of having to start the generator.  The Grundfos pump is available in a wide range of pump heads for different flows and depth of wells. If pumping from a deeper well you would order  a smaller flow pump on  a certain size motor.  If pumping to storage tanks it doesn't matter how long it takes to fill the tank. The power load can be spread accross the whole solar day.  These pumps are in the $500 to $600  range, alot cheaper than the solar direct pumps. It allows you more flexibility in the use of the power from your solar panels, with still pretty good efficiency.

Chris

[Off Grid Jeff]

My static level is 360'.

[Off Grid Jeff]

I called Conergy and they gave my number to a reseller who told me they will not be selling anymore Lorentz submersible pumps.

Jeff

[GaryGary]

Hi,

You might find some helpful stuff here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterPumping/waterpumping.htm

Gary

[DanB]

Hi Jeff - yes, like a few other folks here have said...

We have a 200' deep well.  Once a week I would start the generator and fill our 500 gallon tank and use a smaller pump that supplies the house from that. Our well pump is 3/4 hp 220V. We used a 'portable' 5500 Watt honda generator (or my Fuking diesel listeroid) to pump with.  

Two days ago my honda bit the dust (seized up) so now I run the well pump off my inverter, through a transformer and it all seems to work fine.

[cabinfevor]

Jeff,

I'm realtivly new to this site but I do have experience with what you want to do. I've got an off grid place with a 200 ft well. When I bought it the guy before me only had a yamaha gen powering the entire house. When you shut it down you got cold and the lights went out.

I put in a 2500 watt inverter/charger with a 800ah battery bank. I placed a 5kva transformer between the gen and the inverter feed bucking the 240 vac from the gen to 120 at twice the amprage, this also allow the gen to run balanced. The inverter powers a normal electrical panel that distributes power thru the entire house. One of the breakers inside the panel feeds a 2kva transformer that bucks the 120vac back to 240 vac and I feed my deep well pump with it, filling a conventional well tank. Current ratings at the inverter go up 10 amps when the pump runs. This is normal as most 240 pumps run at 4-5 amps. I am currently adding solar panels to keep the gen usage to a min.

Now all this may sound like it's complicated but the cost of what I call normal components are much cheaper than specialized solar pumps ect. Transformers in general are pretty bullet proof and have a low failure rate. Deep well pumps on the other hand can go on you anytime and generally don't last more than 5-10 yrs. Many are available second hand for short money.

If you go this route it also alows you the convienince of having power when ever the inverter is on and not just when you are running your 120vac gen.

You could just upgrade your gen to a size large enough to run a deepwell pump. That would be the fastest. Genrally 1/2hp pumps are good to 300ft, deeper than that most well companies recommend 3/4hp pumps so your current requirments may be higher. Another option would be a 120vac pump but I don't know if you'll find one to operate in a 500ft well.

Good luck

[Off Grid Jeff]

Thanks everyone, I am getting alot of good information.

I was really hoping to be able to use a 230/115V pump like the grundfos 5SQ series, but I think those only go up to 1/2 HP, as far as I can tell the 3/4HP 5SQ is only 230V.

Jeff