Author Topic: what prevents alt/rotor from twisting pwr cable?  (Read 1554 times)

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daleh007

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what prevents alt/rotor from twisting pwr cable?
« on: September 02, 2004, 02:27:24 AM »
If the wind decides to come from several directions what keeps the delivery cable in the tower from twisting?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 02:27:24 AM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: what prevents alt/
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2004, 02:47:08 AM »
On most sites the wind rarely does a complete rotation, it tends to move backwards and forwards.

The cable can stand a fair number of twists and every so often you just unwind it.

It is not a bad idea to fit a plug and socket at the bottom end, it's much easier than turning the machine on a calm day to unwind it.


Flux

« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 02:47:08 AM by Flux »

jacquesm

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what prevents alt/rotor from twisting pwr cable
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2004, 05:50:35 AM »
most commercial machines use sliprings to avoid twisting the cable. Avoiding twist is only one reason to use sliprings or a similar arrangement.  Because the cable doesn't move you can connect it 'hard' to the tower, at one or more points so the weight of the cable doesn't just hang from the top section. If you have a very long cable/very heavy able then this is good practice because most cable is not meant to be hanging straight down, but rather to be supported at several points. Sliprings are fairly easy to make, a hollow thickwall tube as a base, an insulating ring around that and a bunch of copper or brass rings around that. The wiring comes up the inside of the tube and is soldered onto the copper rings. On the outside (which would normally be the top part of the machine) you can connect to the rings using some brass blade springs with shaped copper brushes attached to that. If you don't have access to a lathe you can get away with things like copper tubing cut to size and epoxied in place.


If you want pictures of slipring examples I can post a few, I have a whisper 1500 here that has met with an accident (150 foot drop), it's sliprings are pretty neat and a homebuilt set that's a little heavier.


If you decide to just let the cable 'hang' down the tower try to find a cable that is meant for overhead pole-to-pole stringing, these cables have a component (usually a nylon thread) that takes the tension from the electrical conductors.


A thing that will help you (besides as the poster above pointed out that the wind just sort of swings side to side in most places) is that the tension that you build up in the cable tends to 'wind up' the cable like a spring and after a few turns it will prefer to unwind rather than wind further.


The best spot for your cable that is free hanging would be inside the tower hanging down from the bottom of the tower adapter.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 05:50:35 AM by jacquesm »

daleh007

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Re: what prevents alt/rotor from twisting cable?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2004, 06:01:27 PM »
Thanks for the info and I'd  love to see the pictures of the sliprings. Your correct about the wind, it is usually out of the east or the west although the other day I noticed it was out of the North. In the winter we sometimes see wind out of the South and so this is why I'm a little concerned because because the wind at one time or another seems to come from all directions.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 06:01:27 PM by daleh007 »

jacquesm

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Re: what prevents alt/rotor from twisting cable?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2004, 08:02:15 PM »
slipring pictures are up. The whisper set looks pretty good considering that it has been in operation for many years before a horrible crash finished the machine (I got it from Lawrence McKay, a local expert in renewables that runs a small solar/wind/hydro energy business to study while I'm rolling my own machine, I've been at it for 18 months now, many failures but I have learned a lot :). The brushes belong to the whisper sliprings, they fit in the rotating part of the housing (but the housing picture are not fit to print, it's a wreck). The wiring is in pretty sorry shape, but that's mostly due to the fall.


The machine was a whisper 1500.


The sliprings I made myself have three strands of #6 wire coming out of the bottom as well as a piece of bowden cable (not visible) to connect a winch cable for mechanical shut-down. The bowden cable would still need a 'swivel' type connection to stop it from getting entangled. I've tested them at 60 amps, 66 volts AC, no noticeable arcing. The spring pressure is pretty strong, my guess is that the material is something other than ordinary copper. Resistance of the contacts is <100 mOhm, which is about as low as I can measure with the stuff I've got here, losses should be fairly small. (60 Amps through .1 ohms is still a 6 V drop, but they are probably much better than that, I just don't have a reliable meter for mOhms). <P>
The material I used for the rings is ordinary brass stock, the gray 'goop' between the rings is locally sold as 'epoxy steel', it takes a bit longer to set up than ordinary epoxy but is much better machineable. And it does not conduct electricity, even though the name suggests it does. After setting of the glue I turned the whole thing on the lathe to make it perfectly round, which reduces the stress on the brushes. The bearings are 80 mm od, 40 mm id, they are pretty strong because the machine that will sit on top of them is quite heavy, if you are going to make a lighter machine you can probably safely make the whole thing smaller.


Note the little copper shaped pieces on the whisper brushes that match the curvature of the brushes to the curvature of the sliprings, this increases the contact area, reduces wear and decreases the resistance of the connection. You could probably try to bend the brush springs in the shape of the rings if you don't want to add the little shaped pieces with similar results in resistance but you'd significantly reduce the life (there is quite a bit of pressure on the springs to avoid 'hopping' or 'stick slip' or whatever you want to call it which would lead to arcing and very fast degradation of the contacts, that does mean a little more wear due to friction). Worst case you'd have to replace the brushes every couple of years (no big deal).

« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 08:02:15 PM by jacquesm »

tecker

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Re: what prevents alt/rotor from twisting pwr cabl
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2004, 03:27:31 AM »


   Here's some electric bearings thta might be usable the aperage would be better

than contact brushes even theough they are steel .


   http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/electricbearings.html

« Last Edit: September 04, 2004, 03:27:31 AM by tecker »

jacquesm

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Re: what prevents alt/rotor from twisting pwr cabl
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2004, 05:59:00 AM »
that's neat ! I wonder what kind of life they get out of a setup like that. Bearings are usually designed to have minimum contact area, the 'conductive grease' takes care of one problem (arcing on the contact point), so it should be a lot better than just plain tapered roller bearings. For a low power setup this could work very well.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2004, 05:59:00 AM by jacquesm »