Author Topic: Need suggestions  (Read 1253 times)

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Inventor

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Need suggestions
« on: October 06, 2004, 04:00:27 PM »
I am getting ready to test a new concept to increase the Lift of a Savonius Vawt and I want to be able to put a variable load on the turbine to test the performance over a variety of wind speeds.


I am considering a torque meter and tachometer above a multivane air moter such as Sandia Labs used in their Two and Three Bucket Savonius Turbine.


http://www.sandia.gov/Renewable-Energy/wind-energy/abstrect/760131A


I am a M.E. and traditionally know doodley-squat about electrics :-).


Any comments will be appreciated.


Thanks,


Paul Soderberg

paul@hemiwedge.com

« Last Edit: October 06, 2004, 04:00:27 PM by (unknown) »

robotmaker

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2004, 07:28:53 PM »
Not knowing what exactly your setup is as far as connecting the shaft of your rotor with whatever you are going to use as a generator, the only suggestion I can offer would be to tell you that you can load that thing down by putting a dc current thru an ac motor.  Thats how they do dynamic breaking.  Did you need to take data?

RJ
« Last Edit: October 06, 2004, 07:28:53 PM by robotmaker »

silverbug2

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2004, 10:57:48 PM »
I also know very little about electric systems. that is why I have made a Hydraulic dynomometer to test my blades.


If you can pump oil through a variable orfice to create pressure, and can measure the flow rate with a flow meter, you have all you need to calculate HP.


HP=(psi x Gpm)/1714


rule of thumb

1HP=   1 gpm @ 1500 psi


If you use a fixed displacement pump, you can vary the flow by changing sprocket or pulley sizes.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2004, 10:57:48 PM by silverbug2 »

silverbug2

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2004, 11:05:11 PM »
1 hp = 746 watts


If you adjust the variable orfice(valve) you can increase the load to whatever you want. You can moniter the blade speed by watching the flow rate.


By closing off the valve completly, you can shut down your mill and make adjustments and test your inprovemnts.


I will soon be posting pictures of my unit in the diary section.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2004, 11:05:11 PM by silverbug2 »

Inventor

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2004, 01:54:01 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion...sounds like a good idea.

To give you some idea of what I am trying to do I submit the following:


My turbine resembles a Savonius, but I am using a phenomena, known to Aerodynamicists, to provide increased lift. However its application on aircraft is not too reliable and in some cases not economical: I believe I have a method to employ this principle efficiently and economically on a VAWT. This is a big departure from what I am led to believe anyone else has tried and the only way I know of to prove it is to build and test one. I will post this design and my findings, even if a failure, for whatever it's worth to this board on completion.


To test this unit I have decided to build a pontoon boat with a raised deck and no superstructure with a top speed about 30 MPH; An anemometer will be forward of the bow and the readout, with all other data I want to collect, will be transmitted to the cockpit. The "basement" below the deck will be available for access to the turbine output shaft at all times.


I live on one of the coves of a fairly large lake and most early mornings the lake is very quiet without much wind. I intend to do all my testing at that time. The anemometer will indicate the wind speed so that I can measure performance over a wide range of speeds and geometry iterations.


Your loading device sound as if it would be quite adequate and less expensive than Torque sensors et al and while there would probably be a higher magnitude of parasitic losses they would be constant through out the matrix so that would give good comparitive figures.


If you will elaborate on the system I might better understand how to go about this.


With all this long winded explanation I wanted to give everyone as many facts as possible and would appreciate your, or others, additional comments.


Thank you for your help.


Paul

« Last Edit: October 08, 2004, 01:54:01 PM by Inventor »

Inventor

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2004, 01:58:43 PM »
Very clever idea.  I look foreward to your post.


Please aslo see my new comments.


Thank you,


Paul

« Last Edit: October 08, 2004, 01:58:43 PM by Inventor »

silverbug2

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2004, 12:39:42 AM »
Remember that you must use a fixed displacement hyd pump. A simple gear pump will do. Pumps are rated by the volume per revolution. 5cc/rev  X  1000 rpm will give you 5000cc or 5 liters per min.(close to 1 gallon)


The output of the pump is directed through a tee fitting with three ports.  (in, out, and one for a psi gauge)


 Connect a needle valve and then a flow meter in series.


  The output of the flow meter is directed back to the hyd resivior.


small hyd pumps are cheap $200. To get a higher flow rate you can increase your pump speed by changing the gear ratio from your blades to your pump.


points to remember


Pumps pump oil,not pressure!


 Pressure is caused by restriction of the oil flow.

 Using a variable orfice(needle valve) will allow you to put a significant load on your blades.


Remember that all the work will be converted to heat, so don't fry you oil.


What part of the world do you live in?

« Last Edit: October 09, 2004, 12:39:42 AM by silverbug2 »

Inventor

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2004, 10:27:59 AM »
I'm quite familiar with hydraulics and I understand and thank you for your comments.


I live on Lake Conroe, about 50 miles north of Houston, Tx.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2004, 10:27:59 AM by Inventor »

silverbug2

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Re: Need suggestions
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2004, 11:38:03 PM »
I am from Alberta Canada
« Last Edit: October 09, 2004, 11:38:03 PM by silverbug2 »