Author Topic: My first wind turbine  (Read 2674 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chinsettawong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
My first wind turbine
« on: November 17, 2004, 07:54:22 AM »
Dear Friends:


I have been reading postings on this site for several months now.  And I just want to share with you my first wind turbine.


The blade is 2.8 meters in diameter with a TSR of 8.  There are 80 turns of #15 wire per coil and 9 coils altogether.  I use a dual rotors design with 12 magnets on each rotor.  





The tower is 20 meters tall with 12 guy wires.





As far as the power output, I have seen a maximum of 13.5 volts at 30 amps charging into a 12 volts battery so far.  I can't really tell how fast it was turning but the wind was quite strong at that time.


I have one question.  I have heard people talking about turbine stalling.  What exactly is stalling and how can I tell when mine is?


Wachara Chinsettawong

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 07:54:22 AM by (unknown) »

picmacmillan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2004, 08:34:49 AM »
the wind generator will stall when the magnets are too close together from disc to disc. to fix the problem, you adjust the air gap between the magnets(make the gap bigger)..........the down side of too big of an air gap is you lose power but the good side is the generator will turn more freely....that's what i have learned, any body else have any thing else to maybe help this guy along......i am going to be putting my first genny together(after 1 year), today... yours looks great, good job.......take care...pickster
« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 08:34:49 AM by picmacmillan »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2004, 11:13:04 AM »
That's a bit simplified but generally right.


You have designed your prop for a tsr of 8, so ideally it needs to run so that its tip speed is always 8 times the wind speed, you would then work under ideal conditions.


In practice it is not usually possible to achieve this over the whole wind speed range. A prop designed for tsr 8 will work with good efficiency down to about tsr 6.

Below this the output will start to fall and below perhaps tsr 5 it will fall very rapidly. This is when the angle of attack goes over 12 to 12 degrees, this results in a serious reduction in lift and is what we call stall, it also causes aircraft to crash.


If your generator makes more power at a given wind speed than the propeller can supply at the ideal speed you run into this problem.  It usually happens when the cut in speed is low and the generator is very efficient.  Things work well at cut in but the output fails to rise rapidly with wind speed.


You don't give a lot of information to make any judgement about your machine, was it furling at 30A for instance. It may not be as windy as you think, but a machine of that diameter ought to be capable of much more than 30A into a 12v load so you may well be reaching stall.


If your rectifier is at ground level a very simple test is to disconnect one ac lead from the rectifier and see what happens. If the machine speeds up and produces more power it is a fair indication that you have stall.


Usually the simplest cure is to increase the clearance between the magnet rotors as suggested above. This will make the alternator have to run at a higher speed to produce the same power and the blades will operate at a better tsr.


Flux

« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 11:13:04 AM by Flux »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2004, 11:26:03 AM »
Above that should have said   if the angle of attack goes above 12 to 15 deg.


Also if you tell us the magnet size, rotor diameter and gap between magnets it may be possible to decide if you have reached stall.


Congratulations on a nice machine.


Flux

« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 11:26:03 AM by Flux »

skravlinge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2004, 01:56:38 PM »
You should not see stall as a problem only, if it  happens in very high wind-speed.

The  airflow which making the lift  goes  near zero, and will protect the  rotor going  overspeed. There are better solution for overspeed anyhow, if you want to milk power in hard winds,


If you not know this link before look at:

http://www.aut.ac.ir/departments/elec/downloads/Wind/en/tour/index.htm#design

« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 01:56:38 PM by skravlinge »

ghurd

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 8059
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2004, 09:34:09 PM »
Nice link!

G-
« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 09:34:09 PM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

ghurd

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 8059
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2004, 10:19:22 PM »
Sorry.

Very nice machine too!

G-
« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 10:19:22 PM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

Mentally Moribund

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2004, 11:16:12 PM »
first of all - nice wind gen!  

I have been doing allot of studing on magnetic flux and strongly believe that you can also help correct a stall by placing copper inbetween your magnets.  Thin wire windings with the ends shorted or if you can find laminated coppper foil and fold it back and forth until you have have gap filled is even better(also shorting the ends).  This is suppose to redirect your field er something like a shaded pole motor.  I would see what others have to say first.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 11:16:12 PM by Mentally Moribund »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2004, 06:14:31 AM »
I think you have been reading about the damping bars fitted in slots in the poles of very large wound field single phase alternators. They are intended to stop the pulsating flux from the single phase circulating through the field circuit and causing losses.


They were never worthwhile on small alternators, they probably are not practical with permanent magnets as there are usually no pole shoes and the magnets do not act the same way as a steel circuit.


They are not needed anyway for more than one phase and they are not likely to have any effect on stall.


Flux

« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 06:14:31 AM by Flux »

chinsettawong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2004, 06:35:51 AM »
Thanks for all the inputs.


I don't think my windgen is stalling yet.  But I just want to know what it will be like when it does.


Where I live doesn't always have strong wind.  In fact in never does, except when it is about to rain.  In summer time, I rarely feel wind blowing strongly at all.


Today when I went and looked, it was only charging at 1 amp.  I couldn't feel the wind blowing at all at the ground level.  


Is it possible to generate more power using a bigger blade and more coils and magnets?  Is it worth the effort to do so?  My hands are really iching to make a bigger one.


Wachara Chinsettawong

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 06:35:51 AM by chinsettawong »

skravlinge

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2004, 06:42:50 AM »
In areas with small winds blades should be  bigger, the generator can be the same, this problem are discussed in the link I   sent above.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 06:42:50 AM by skravlinge »

chinsettawong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2004, 07:18:14 PM »
The thing I don't understand is that when you have a bigger diameter blade.  At the same wind speed the RPM would be lower.  That would make the cut-in RPM for this new blade higher and therefore might not get any power at the same wind speed as the smaller blade does.  Or is my understanding wrong?


Wachara C.

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 07:18:14 PM by chinsettawong »

DanB

  • Global Moderator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2151
  • Country: us
    • otherpower.com
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2004, 09:15:25 AM »
Id agree with you.

If you make the blades larger (for a low wind area) then you must also lower the cutin speed. Lowering the cutin means your winding with more windings, and probably finer wire... so in the end you wind up with an alternator capable of handling less power before it overheats.  So - if you go that route (larger blade, same alternator with lower cutin) - you'd want to be sure it furls nice and early.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2004, 09:15:25 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

hiker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
  • BIG DOG
Re: My first wind turbine
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2005, 03:59:07 AM »
looks great......
« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 03:59:07 AM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA